Update: Grammys-what does it mean to Metal/Prog?

Again, see Update post about "Death" being part of a "Metal Exhibit at the Grammy Museum in 2012.,

Edited by MAVIIIVAM - 08 Jan 2012 at 8:24pm

topofsm wrote: The Grammys mean nothing to metal. Whatsoever. 3. One or two bands that aren't really metal like Godsmack or Korn. The Grammys created the metal category a long time ago when it was popular to cash in on how prominent it was in the popular music scene. Now any important metal is too obscure for any Grammy nominator to seriously know what they are talking about.

Totally agree.

AhhhhHHHHHHWWWwwww FUK!

This from "Rush is a Band"  dot com
http://rushisaband.com/display.php?id=2471

Too bad no one gives a shit about prog anymore to give it a spot on the grammies. I would watch them for that! But other than that, these awards shows pique no interest in me.

topofsm wrote: The Grammys mean nothing to metal. Whatsoever. This is typically the lineup for a metal grammy nomination list for any given year: 1. One of the big 4 of thrash releasing a new album (even if it sucks). 2. A classic band like Sabbath or Priest playing one of their overdone classics (Iron Man or Breaking the Law) on tour that yer. 3. One or two bands that aren't really metal like Godsmack or Korn. 4. Another of the above. The Grammys created the metal category a long time ago when it was popular to cash in on how prominent it was in the popular music scene. Now any important metal is too obscure for any Grammy nominator to seriously know what they are talking about.

TOTALLY agree with you on that.

But . . .
As I understand it from a friend I contributed some Art elements in his latest CD (A, if it had to have a
genre- an"Alternative Rock" Band called "The Jigsaw Seen" that has been getting praise left and right)
that a person like me, who has created 5 published album covers, that I qualify to be a "Judge" on the
Grammy Panel .
Again, I have to find the time to look into this. Yes! I could very well put "Athiest" as one of the best
Metal releases of the Year .  I would imagine that I'd make 2 polls, 1 here and 1 at prOgulus.com
and then add my 10� in the end.
I'm just interested in seeing if "we" (the Metalheads and Proggers) could really make our music viable,
not as a genre that make "hits" and are part of some fad, but a music as musical as Jazz and Classical
and again . . . to "educate" those who would care enough to find out that this music is intelligent and of
high musical calibur, or to those curious to find new musics.
I have met alot of people you would never guess were into such musics, or just wanted to find
something "new" and challenging.  It doesnt happen all the time, but I make the effort to "Open their
eyes and ears" to something they may have had cliche's about, and be pleasantly surprised to find that
"Its more than what they thought" .

Theres gotta' be someone out there as optimistic and idealistic as me . . .
I got enough negitivity/pessimism in me when I work at my Job .

I LOVE this music too much to throw in the towel .

Keep your thoughts coming (...And forgive me if I'm repeating myself).




Edited by MAVIIIVAM - 30 Jan 2011 at 12:12am

^ True

Though it would be funny to see someone like Atheist playing in the Grammy's, and winning for Jupiter

I like your explanation 

And as everyone else has said, I agree.

MAVIIIVAM wrote: Hehe . . . Why do I get the feeling most of the reply's will be the same . But look at it this way, Metal and Prog can be at the same level as Jazz and Classical if we too got the same "Genre Breakdown" as they do, get some folks interested in what WE already know is top notch music/another form of music to add to your (the newcommer) musical knowledge. Maybe its US that can add some "Respectability" to the Grammy's Keep them in check and expand their musical knowledge about the Bands we truely see as inspirational and represent its best. . . . still need to find the time to see how I (or any of us) can be on any level to suggest and Vote on the panel of judges .

i would like to nominate myself

The Grammy's mean nothing to me...I don't see how they could mean anything to Metal other than "Hey! Some Hollywood-type douchebag thinks your song is cool enough to be welcomed into the mainstream upper echelon along with the likes of Lady GaGa and Kanye West! Congratulations for even being worth our time!!"

Hello MMA members,

There is somethng that has been bugging me for years, and now the boiling point has
exploded and I've had enough . . .

"...The Grammy Museum in Los Angeles, as part of an exhibit titled Hip-Hop: A Cultural Odyssey.

The first major exhibit to explore hip-hop�s history debuts February 5 with a Special Media Preview Day during Grammy Week. The exhibit will run until May 4, 2011".

Hasn't Heavy Metal, and especially Progressive Rock, been around longer than this form
of R&B?  As I remember, "Rapping" was invented in 1975(?).  And that is- as a clear
definition of the rhyming of words in a beat/melody ("Riffing") as a "Genre" of Music.
(Info Edit):
Wiki on Rap:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapping
on Hip-Hop:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop_music

Preface.
Now before anyone accuses me of being a narrow minded music lover . . .
I grew-up with a variety of music that I could be accused by the cliche'd Metal Head
as "Youre not a Metalhead if you listen to that" (well, in true Metalhead fashion, I'd
just say "Fuck Off"), and "That" is whatever Hits were in the 1960's of the British
Invasion, American 1 hit wonders, to the Beatles, Beach Boys and Rockers like the
Who and Cream to the "Crooners" of the 40's thru the 60's and R&B of the mid 60's
and up till the late 70's, including Country till the 80's, and The Alternative/New Wave
and Contemporary Vocalists, Jazz/Fusion, Blues, Classical and Soundtrack Scoring.
And whatever exists in-between.  My knowledge of Rap/Hip-hop is almost non-
existant, but what I've heard from "Trickey" is refreshing and a bit more musical than
what I've heard most . . .
But I'm open to anything and always willing to explore.

But Rock, Metal and Progressive Rock seems to fill me with what I want and what I
come to enjoy because of its diversity and willingness to break bounderies and
challenge the senses.
(I will expound on my "Musical up-bringing" after a few replies have been posted
from all of you).

Grammy's lack of.
I have been super angry at the Grammy's for decades, they supposedly want to
educate many about what they represent in the Music Community, but fail time and
time again to have realistic catagories for the Genre's (thats plural) of Metal and
Progressive Rock.  Yet look at how many "Sub-genre's" for Rap, Hip-hop and
R&B their are, again-with exception of R&B, Rap/Hip-Hop is a relatively a young form
of music (let me make clear-as a "Genre", not of its History, we can go back to Jazz
and Blues for its contribution to Rock and Roll as well), but it seems its more about
"Popularity" than an education of any musics to be looked into, either by an educated
representation, by a "scholar" or at-least taking the time to find educated Judges who
make the decisions of picking the "Best" representations of musics that are the Best
of the given Year.
Not just what is popular, but make a great musical statement of the Art, the
musicianship.

I expound on this in a Roadrunner Newsletter about their "Nominee's" from the
Grammy's (And... How ironic that "only" their label of Bands have been nominated,
can anyone say "Payola" or someone has some "Pull" inside the lobby).
My anger comes from many sources, the over popularity of "Simple Music" being
heard and force-fed through Super Markets, where you work, the TV Commercials
and the "Hits" that seem to be created with a mind/influence to become a "Theme"
to TV Commercials (hear the song, buy the product AND the 1 hit wonder, everyone
wins attitude).  I hate it, its like hearing constant jack-hammers outside your window
when you just want to sleep.
I'm not here to "convert" every kid, elderly person, afro american (please, don't be
offended by that, Blues music and Jazz-2 forms of music invented by Black
Americans are mostly enjoyed around the world by anglo/caucasions, go figure.
But I have yet to see "Kings X" nominated; or was "Thin Lizzy" ever nominated?)
or Mom washing the dishes - to listen-to Death Metal and Avant Garde Prog. I just
want a "Fair" representation of these 2 forms of music and their sub-genres to be
included in the psychi/conciousness of anyone who loves music, yet-can still be
surprised their is more to just the Radio, that their are people willing to spend their
time and efforts to create Art for art-sakes, with very little accolades, money and
virtually NO Radio-play, no Hits and no possibility of a Big Label to back them or
offer a long-term contract. . . . all the while they work a shitty 9 to 5 job.
They do it because its a challenge, their souls compell them to create without
bounderies or rules.  In anger, passion, love, musicianship, to tell a story and to
just write an idea and perform it.

So go here to see who Roadrunner gushes about:
http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/news/Roadrunner-at-the-Grammys-And-the-Nominees-Are-22470.aspx

And I leave  the "only" comment unfortunately (back in 12/7/2010) below it, that
reads:

Whoopie Fuckin' Doo . . .
What the hell has the Grammy's meant to any Metal or Progressive
Rock Band . . . 0.
Metal and Prog was never about Hit Singles or being tailor made
for TV commercials and hear the same 10 performers 7 times a
day on some Top40 Radio and getting inundated by gossip about
who did what on the Red Carpet on Entertainment Tonight.

Some so-called "judge" got their Grandson whose into Emo Bands
to pick a few Metal names because he heard some of the "Metal
Kids" talking about them, or some Old man (I'm an old fart too)
who just opened a book and put his finger down and picked a name.

Can ANYONE tell me what the fuck is "Best Metal Performance"?
How about "Album"!!! Its Metal and Progressive Rock that gives a
damn about creating a Record, not the fucking Top40 crap that a
Best Album is based solely on a Top Charted Single.
Go checkout the "Lists" of nomination categories (Sub-genres)
for Country, R&B and Rap:
http://www.grammy.com/nominees

Yet again our music is not taken seriously by the Industry, yet
we have the most diverse and truly "International" of all musics.
But no-one is speaking out.
I am assuming that Best Metal Performance is their way of saying
Metal/Underground musics write a few good songs and the rest is
filler. If Best Metal Performance means that these musics are
for only a live performance, then why are "Debut release songs"
(Top 40/Pop Artists) nominated and not a random B-side?
In-otherwords its a throw away catagory because who cares about
Metal but young kids that know nothing about music, no-one likes
this noisy shit anyway... (Metal and Prog don't make "Hits", so how
can we judge them as a Band or a viable Music?  Its must be not
that popular).

In-turn, that makes any Progressive Rock/Metal the bottom of the
barrel of music because what is "Progressive" anyway? Oh that
over the top, pompous pretentious stuff. Well these bands aren't
pretending to be anything but excellent musicians using all their
knowledge of music to the best of their abilities.
Does that mean that "Classical Music" is pompous and
pretentious too? But what we hear are things like "Lady Gaga
was classically trained...", well I dont hear it in her muzak.
I hear it (and Jazz) in Alicia Keys music, and she writes and
performs her music on Piano, same with Norah Jones, Tori Amos.
Lady Gag has gotten where she is for her "personna", her "facade"
not the music, its as if she invented Disco, well it still sucks.

The closest thing we get is "Best Rock Instrumental
Performance", but only Dweezil Zappa is note-worthy this time
around and Jeff Beck gets nominated every year as if he was the
only Solo Guitarist on the Planet (Everyone knows his name and
history, thats why).

Its awesome that Maiden is nominated, but I really think they
were picked by someone who knows nothing about their music
so lets nominate them on a Single and their new album that just
came out. I seriously doubt Maiden will show-up unless they
were asked to play . . . yeah that'll happen.
Their were so-many other Metal "Albums" that were exceptional
to be on a list with them. But they're just too Underground.

But its quite a miracle to see Porcupine Tree nominated, but
look at the category, "Best Surround Sound".
I want to see Porky Tree "perform" on the Show and scare all the
audience in what well-crafted music really sounds like.
Then later after everyone is waving their hands back and forth
with the latest Pop Rap idiot, completely make them shit in their
pants when Meshuggah comes out and plays "Obzen" (No applause,
and Cameras show various celebs with their mouths agape).
I figure if you are a Celeb or a Performer and you show up at the
Ceremony, you must have a musical knowledge that could fill a
matchbox.

The Judges of these awards have never known the genre of Metal
and Prog, and the Organization is more to blame because they
never thought of filling this gap in Music, finding people
that care about these Genres and their sub-genres.
Wheres "Best Thrash Album", "Best Death Metal", "Best Prog
Rock", "Best Prog Metal", "Best Heavy Metal", "Best Hard
Rock", "Best Rock/Metal Guitar Album"? . . . Metal and Prog
make entire albums, thats what matters.
How about Best Recorded Metal and Prog Album, Best Sound
Engineering for Metal/Prog?
We could go on about sub-categories and other sub-genres but
the above would be a start.
And I would not want to see these categories "Were judged
earlier today...", they should be a part of the regular show and
serve as a way to Educate anyone who is looking for new,
challenging music, or bored with what Radio has to offer and
try something out of the norm.

There are Hundreds, maybe Thousands of Bands in Metal and
Prog worthy of Best Album and Record of the Year (uh, whats
the difference?) and no-one seems to be speaking out for our
music which astounds me every year, I'm guessing Labels
cant speakout because that would be "selling/coaxing" their
music to the Grammy's and they need an un-biased panel.
And as I understand, if "we" wanted to be added as a Judge,
we have to had been in the Recording Industry in somesort of
capacity.
I've done 4 published Album Covers/Layouts so I hope to get
some time to look into this, but I'm not the only one I'm sure, we
need strength in numbers and more people need to speakout
instead of being the cliched moody stupid [%&*@]s everyone
thinks we are. Or maybe its just that we don't need to be
part of any publicity, we know its good and we spread the news
by word of mouth. But I think its a damn shame that most Metal
and Prog Bands can't make a living doing what they love to do.

I just had to speakout, even though no-one will see this, but
I'm sick and tired of Rap, R&B and Pop dominating anything
that has to do with music. And lets not forget the so-called
"Rock Bands" we're supposed to like.

Keep Bangin' and Prog on! Keep Defending the Faith!

Epilogue.
We can all be cynical and say "Well who the fuck cares, no-one needs to tell us what
to like, we all know our music is the most musical and innovative musics out there",
or "Who gives a Rats ass" or "Like the Rock and Roll Hall of Shame, they dont get it,
will NEVER get it, so fuck'em and keep the Faith going, after all, thats what Metal
and Prog is all about, not sticking to the Rules".

. . . I guess I care, I want accolades for their contribution to the fabric of musical
history and our musics dont have to be popular, just recognized as a viable music
thats not only loved Internationally (think about it- WE all dont care or put bounderies
what Country these musics come from, as long as its good, can the average Rap
listener or Top40 Pop fan say the same?), but is a music that is played with the
up-most musicianship of the highest order, that can rival a Jazz composition or be as
complex as a Contemporary Classical piece, or as Melodic as a Pop song, yet can
challenge the listener to think outside the box (By Lyrics as-well as its Music).

I look forward to your comments, hopefully we can be civil about it to, but I think its
time we really care (but not take ourselves too seriously) and tried to do "something"
about it, though I dont really know what, it could be these Grammy-types could be
really smug characters and think, "Oh my . . . THEY think their so-called 'Music'
deserves recognition, all noisy, simple, bombastic and self-indulgeant! 'Artistic'
indeed!".

Well . . .
Then "Fuck'em" .
Like a Fragmentation Explosive:
"Point Speakers toward enemy".

Thanks for your time all .    


Edited by MAVIIIVAM - 08 Jan 2012 at 8:13pm