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adg211288 
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 Topic: DjentPosted: 20 Jan 2012 at 1:47pm |
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Well I'm defining no purpose in this case as having no purpose other than do exactly the same thing as something else, which I strongly feel that djent, when used as a genre label rather than a tone, among others, is doing.
I think it's also important to note the difference between a tag and a genre. djent as a tag I can accept because of the guitar tone thing, but as a genre no way. I do think though that there are some bands, unrelated to djent, who just seem to go out of their way to make up a unique genre name to brand themselves with only to produce music that is pretty generic. There was this band, Inmate I think their name was, who posted over at the Heavy Metal Haven forums to promote their stuff, did it in the wrong section and rather than help me and my team over there find where their thread should be place fobbed us off with some rubbish about being a 'new age metal' band, which I guess is where some of my bitterness towards such tags comes from, since their representative that day riled me up pretty bad due to his or her unwillingness to give us a straight answer, which ultimately was in their interests as well, because people typically go looking for one genre in the section that is labelled as that genre, not somewhere else if you get what I mean. Turned out in this case the band played melodeath, very typical melodeath IMO, it reminded me of In Flames and the like. I apologise if any of that bitterness shows in my posts in this topic by the way. All I can say is I like things organised, and throwing too many needless genres into the mix would turn things into chaos IMO. Far as I'm concerned if it can already be called prog or thrash or metalcore or whatever, then it doesn't need to new genre name made up for it. Bands may do something different to others but that's called variation, not being a different genre. One of these days I'll learn how to write shorter posts in topics as well.
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Time Signature
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Posted: 20 Jan 2012 at 1:11pm |
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All labels serve some sort of purpose. If they didn't have a function, they wouldn't be created in the first place.
But yes, whether one believes in them or not is a personal matter. There are lots of genre labels that I do not believe in, but I recognize that they all serve a communicative purpose. |
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adg211288
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Posted: 20 Jan 2012 at 11:48am |
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I like labels too, just not ones that serve no purpose. But labels are just things people come up with so I think we probably all have some we just plain don't believe in. I don't even believe in Viking Metal for example, and that's not even one of these fairly recent ones like djent. To use your own logic about taking something off the shelf, the term djent tells me nothing. It could usually be prog based or core based, or just as easily something else entirely.
We're going off topic, so I'll wrap this up and as you said, agree to disagree: Labels aside, I don't like the djent sound either, be it a genre or not, I find it boring after a few tracks. Maybe I've just been listening to the wrong bands, but I remember getting a djent sampler free and thinking most of it was terrible.
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MAVIIIVAM
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Posted: 20 Jan 2012 at 11:31am |
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I like labels,
But only those that describe the music as a whole, not are a derivative of an already established title, BUT . . . I can tell a "Djent" band from a "Math Metal" band from the way the guitars punctuate the notes. And Math Metal can encompass many forms of Metal, yet its a derivative of Prog Metal that composes complex rhythms and compositions . . . Anyway, when I take a product off the shelf, I want to know whats in it, what are the ingredients, thats why I dont mind Labels. But Bathroom Tissue is just Toilet Paper in the end  .But I think you are too late adg, Djent has become a genre, its being used by many folks now . So Iagree with Time Signatures assessment. Okay, you pick a knife, or gun, and I'll use my Guitar ! . . . |
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"If you're happy to be an Ant in the Sand Box, you're welcome to it!" -Forbidden
For Progressive Metal and Prog Rock, come visit, request songs and explore at PrOgulus.com |
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adg211288
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Posted: 20 Jan 2012 at 10:54am |
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Actual and pure symphonic metal is arguably somewhat rare, that's why the term is used as a prefix on other genres quite often, symphonic power, symphonic black, etc. Though I guess you could argue that symphonic power metal sounds better on paper than power symphonic metal.
In some ways it's an overused term as a genre, but a very legit prefix to most, or even theoretically all metal genres, though I don't think I've heard of a symphonic thrash band yet.  This is is most definitely a symphonic Xerath track. from II, the sounds do get a little drowned in some places once the metal kicks in but if you listen carefully they can be heard throughout. In fact this track is more symphonic metal than it is groove metal in my opinion. My overall point was more that Xerath is describable under legitimate genres (as is every so called djent act I've heard I just picked on them because I'm most familiar with them). Symphonic Metal, Groove Metal and even Progressive Metal are all valid, so why the need to used the term djent as a genre? By the way I don't mean to be an ass either, but all these meaningless so called genre names that go around these days is something I just don't get. Djent is just one of them. You could say I like to keep things simple.
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MAVIIIVAM
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Posted: 20 Jan 2012 at 10:29am |
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I dont mean to be an ass . . .
Symphonic Metal to me has either meant "Powermetal" or "Darkwave" (The Gothic Female fronted Operatic vox), add "Groove" and that just means the Guitar riffs "Chug" or . . . D-jent  .I just dont get where the symphonic part comes in, the Keys? Well in the example of Xerath the keys are played as a Lead instrument or textures, not so much as a "Orchestral Background" of sounds. Look, I'm an Old Fart . . . I have followed every sub-genre of Metal since its creation, I always thought I had a pretty good ear, yet not being able to be articulate enough and my limited knowledge of Music "terminology" to know what I'm talking about . . .So I guess we'll agree to disagree . |
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adg211288
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Posted: 20 Jan 2012 at 10:09am |
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Sorry mate that's exactly what they are, at the core of it.
Well, II is at least. I haven't listened to I yet. They throw in some prog too and a bit of death, but the most common sounds in II are groove metal like riffs, with symphonic elements. Hence symphonic groove metal.
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MAVIIIVAM
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Posted: 19 Jan 2012 at 7:42pm |
Symphonic Groove Metal???? . . . oh come on  . (But then you say the next quote). |
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"If you're happy to be an Ant in the Sand Box, you're welcome to it!" -Forbidden
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adg211288
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Posted: 19 Jan 2012 at 9:24am |
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I think I can safely say I don't like djent. Some it, usually the instrumental stuff, is passable enough I guess, but not even the likes of Animals as Leaders or Chimp Spanner really do a lot for me. I enjoyed Xerath's latest a fair bit, although I don't personally consider Xerath as anything to do with this djent stuff. They're symphonic groove metal. I don't see the point in all these 'genre' names floating, including djent, about when music is perfectly describable under established genres.
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Time Signature
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Posted: 19 Jan 2012 at 6:47am |
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I think there's a lot of good djent stuff out there - I like Chimp Spanner, TesseracT, The Empire Shall Fall, Animals as Leaders and stuff like that.
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Triceratopsoil
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Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 10:54pm |
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DEI was my first 'shugg, and I love it still
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MAVIIIVAM
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Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 10:38pm |
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Well . . .
I can never get enough of Destroy Erase Improve  It just has everything I want in a Math Metal Albumof that type of aggression (None is good too). Chaosphere and Obzen are the closest to that era. Carch33 though is a great Avant Garde journey, some truly excellent soundscapes. I is scary! Never heard anything like this (or Future Breed Machine, I heard 1min. of the song and was hooked) when a friend gave it to me 15+ years ago: The Allan Holdsworth-like solos throughout the album are sublime  . . . |
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"If you're happy to be an Ant in the Sand Box, you're welcome to it!" -Forbidden
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Doomster
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Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 10:08pm |
Oh yeah, love that album. |
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Wilytank
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Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 7:35pm |
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Djent albums all seem the same to me. Individual songs are pretty cool, but put them all together on an album and all that technicality quickly grows old. The only exception to me is Catch Thirtythree.
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Kingcrimsonprog
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Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 7:05am |
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I don't think any genre is a fact. I don't think any band are definitely one genre or another, they are just whatever most people call them.
I think a genre is a genre if enough people agree to it. That being said I do think shock rock isn't a genre and that its inclusion on Metal Evolution was a bit silly, so I'm a hypocrite. So, I guess think a genre is a genre if enough people agree to it and the bands share any sonic similarities. Visual ones are not enough. |
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Time Signature
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Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 5:40am |
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Unlike many of my fellow metalheads, I accept the notion of djent as a genre. First off, genre is really just a matter of categorization, and anything can become a defining feature of a category. This also applies to genres, I'd argue, and if a guitar tone is what it takes for people to start classifying artists who use that tone as a genre, then, it is a genre - a category of music - to them. Secondly, the mere fact that a lot of people talk about djent as a genre indicates that it has been/or is being constructed discursively as a genre with the djent tone as a defining feature. People talk about it as a genre - hence, it is a genre to them. It exists as a genre out there in social-discursive space (at least in the community of people who talk about it as a genre), and the more this djent discourse spreads on the internet, the more entrenched the idea of djent as a genre will be. Just like the notions of true metal and false metal. I don't believe in that distinction, but I cannot deny that a lot of people do operate with that distinction and that, to them, it exists.
But that's just my inner social constructivist, my inner discourse analyst, and my inner cognitive linguist speaking. Actually, I find the use genre labels in the discourse on music incredibly fascinating - I remember reading a scientific paper on the use of genre labels in electronic music; it would be very interesting to do a similar study on the use of genre labels in metal music. |
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MAVIIIVAM
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Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 2:29am |
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Tech-Thrash + Math Metal + 2000's = Djent
I only agree when things get too "Core", but their are a few bands that are doing great things with the "Shuggahner influenced Chugging/Djent. And they are also considered "Math Metal" , many are very "Fusion"-like, like Cynic. TesseracT - "One" being my No. 2 fave of 2011. But . . . Let me say, with your Bulbs, Animals as Leaders, Cloudkickers, Scale the Summits and Chimp Spanners, before them you had: - Meshuggah (I believe Fredrik or Hagstrom came up with "Djent") - Continuo Renacer - Atheist - Extol - Spastic Ink - Canvas Solaris - Behold . . . The Arctopus - Gordian Knot - A((wake)) - Textures - Periphery - Exivious and a host of others I'm forgetting But I do feel, when they add the Progressive elements into it, it makes it more interesting. Again, its a matter of taste. I'm picky about the genre (It is becoming a genre, but the forefathers are already being forgotten sadly) as much as I am with Darkwave/Symphonic and Powermetal. But its also being terribly mistaken as "Emo-Screamo" as well, and thats not fair, it was like calling Meshuggah a "Pantera-clone" years ago  . Many dont have vocals as they are just instrumental.I suggest finding the bands I mentioned (A((wake)) is awesome but its soo rare its not even on YOUtube! Go to progulus.com ).And heres some cool ones I've found last year (and the last few when they debuted in 2008): Circles: Gru: Mindwork: Halcyon: Xerath: Memento Waltz: Dynahead: Instant Supression: Wiki Definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djent And . . . Lookie! Djent Compilations  (warning, "Core" sounding stuff too):Djent Bands Part 1 Djent Bands Part 2 Djent Bands Top 10 Djent Bands (re-tweaked) That'll get you started .Edited by MAVIIIVAM - 18 Jan 2012 at 2:35am |
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"If you're happy to be an Ant in the Sand Box, you're welcome to it!" -Forbidden
For Progressive Metal and Prog Rock, come visit, request songs and explore at PrOgulus.com |
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Balthamel
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Posted: 17 Jan 2012 at 11:35pm |
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i like Djun more then Djent,
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A Person
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Posted: 17 Jan 2012 at 10:39pm |
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Originally, the word referred to a specific sound; it is in fact an onomatopoeia. Bulb (a.k.a. Misha Mansoor) says it best: "The onomatopoeia of a heavily palm muted distorted guitar chord which is usually played as but not limited to a 4 string double octave powerchord, and as a result sounds much more metallic and sonically present than a 'chug' 'chugga' or 'djun' per se, and which is basically how Periphery would describe its palm muted guitar sound." |
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Doomster
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Posted: 17 Jan 2012 at 10:38pm |
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Meshuggah doesn't suck (IMO atleast :P)
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adg211288 wrote: