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adg211288 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Mar 2018 at 5:51am
An adjustment has been made to MMA's weight on ratings and reviews. These were originally changed to try to combat down raters but have now been set to more realistic values:

Rating only: 1, regardless of who left it.
Member review: 5
Staff (collab/metal reviewer/admin) review: 10

This was changed as we were concerned that the large weighting rates, especially for staff rating only submissions. Now every non-review rating is on a level playing field. 

On this note, MMA always needs ratings. If you've heard it, rate it! You can change your rating at any time, so don't worrying about changing opinions.


Edited by adg211288 - 10 Mar 2018 at 9:21am
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Excellent! The collab rating only weight was always completely overkill.

This will be an great excuse to post new versions of my sub-genre polls. I can see the pages have changed quite a bit already.
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Hold off a few hours Ashley just to make sure everything is re-synced. Max has warned me that it may take an hour or two for everything to be updated. Also maybe leave the new sub-genres off for now as we're still moving and adding to them. 
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Okay, I'll start thinking about them at the weekend. I'm off out shortly anyway.
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Can't say I'm too fond of this, not because of collab ratings not holding as much weight, but because introducing a new system like this suddenly makes all the top albums look like it has a prog bias again. Doesn't really look too good, it was a lot more varied before.

Edited by Unitron - 09 Mar 2018 at 9:37pm
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I kinda like this. When did the new subs get added? I just noticed them. Must have been fairly recent.
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Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

Can't say I'm too fond of this, not because of collab ratings not holding as much weight, but because introducing a new system like this suddenly makes all the top albums look like it has a prog bias again. Doesn't really look too good, it was a lot more varied before.

This is just not true. There are literally two progressive metal tagged albums in the top 25, plus two Rush (progressive hard rock) albums and one Death (technical/progressive death metal) album, if you want to count those as well. 

The earliest wayback machine page I can get to load is from August last year. There were three albums that could be considered progressive then. It's not such a major difference to get upset about.

This is how the ratings should always have been. Collabs never should have had a 20x bonus for a rating only. It allowed one collab to completely dictate an album's average score and chart position if it was only regular members otherwise rating it. Everything you are seeing is because of that unfair bonus being nullified. We want more people rating things here and it was a major discouragement to normal members that their ratings basically counted for nothing if just one collab had rated the same release. 
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Agreed, this is much fairer.
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Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

Can't say I'm too fond of this, not because of collab ratings not holding as much weight, but because introducing a new system like this suddenly makes all the top albums look like it has a prog bias again. Doesn't really look too good, it was a lot more varied before.


I'm not sure there is a visible Prog bias but does it really matter if there is? I seem to be reading an implication here that even if there is one it's something that should be censored?
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These are the truer charts. The other ones were the bias ones. Collab bias that is. Everything is fair now.


Edited by 666sharon666 - 10 Mar 2018 at 1:56pm
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Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

Can't say I'm too fond of this, not because of collab ratings not holding as much weight, but because introducing a new system like this suddenly makes all the top albums look like it has a prog bias again. Doesn't really look too good, it was a lot more varied before.

This is just not true. There are literally two progressive metal tagged albums in the top 25, plus two Rush (progressive hard rock) albums and one Death (technical/progressive death metal) album, if you want to count those as well. 

The earliest wayback machine page I can get to load is from August last year. There were three albums that could be considered progressive then. It's not such a major difference to get upset about.

This is how the ratings should always have been. Collabs never should have had a 20x bonus for a rating only. It allowed one collab to completely dictate an album's average score and chart position if it was only regular members otherwise rating it. Everything you are seeing is because of that unfair bonus being nullified. We want more people rating things here and it was a major discouragement to normal members that their ratings basically counted for nothing if just one collab had rated the same release. 


Exactly. I was surprised how badly one negative review I did (can't even remember the band or the album) shot something out of the top 5 down to about 15. Might have been Rust in Peace? Or Opeth? Can't remember.
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Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

Can't say I'm too fond of this, not because of collab ratings not holding as much weight, but because introducing a new system like this suddenly makes all the top albums look like it has a prog bias again. Doesn't really look too good, it was a lot more varied before.


Hardly. It could have been a lot worse. The top 5 was looking very mainstream before.
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Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

Can't say I'm too fond of this, not because of collab ratings not holding as much weight, but because introducing a new system like this suddenly makes all the top albums look like it has a prog bias again. Doesn't really look too good, it was a lot more varied before.

This is how the ratings should always have been. Collabs never should have had a 20x bonus for a rating only. It allowed one collab to completely dictate an album's average score and chart position if it was only regular members otherwise rating it. Everything you are seeing is because of that unfair bonus being nullified. We want more people rating things here and it was a major discouragement to normal members that their ratings basically counted for nothing if just one collab had rated the same release. 

I completely agree, the original collab rating weight was complete overkill and this is how it should have always been, but that's not my point.

Since reviews have the highest weight (Which they should, don't get me wrong, ratings are irrelevant in the long run), it makes the albums with more reviews become the ones that are highest. And due to the first four years or so of the site being mostly run by prog fans, the majority of reviews are of prog related albums. 

Though I really didn't think about how this makes normal member ratings/reviews have a lot more pull, so hopefully this gets more people to come on and rate and review.

Originally posted by TheHeavyMetalCat TheHeavyMetalCat wrote:


I'm not sure there is a visible Prog bias but does it really matter if there is? I seem to be reading an implication here that even if there is one it's something that should be censored?

I don't think anything should be censored. I apologize for even bringing anything up, I don't know what I was trying to get at anymore.
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I've never been one to care about charts at all (except genre charts) but the current top 25 looks pretty well balanced to me. And yeah, the new system seems fair enough to me, though again, I generally don't pay much attention to that kind of thing anyway.
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Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

Since reviews have the highest weight (Which they should, don't get me wrong, ratings are irrelevant in the long run), it makes the albums with more reviews become the ones that are highest. And due to the first four years or so of the site being mostly run by prog fans, the majority of reviews are of prog related albums. 

Yes but this should be encouragement for more reviews to be written as well, at least by collabs. There's no incentive to write if you get the same bonus for just a rating only. 
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Originally posted by adg211288 adg211288 wrote:

Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:

Since reviews have the highest weight (Which they should, don't get me wrong, ratings are irrelevant in the long run), it makes the albums with more reviews become the ones that are highest. And due to the first four years or so of the site being mostly run by prog fans, the majority of reviews are of prog related albums. 

Yes but this should be encouragement for more reviews to be written as well, at least by collabs. There's no incentive to write if you get the same bonus for just a rating only. 

Yes, and I really should have organized my thoughts better before posting anything. I think the update of the weight is great, it's just due to not as many reviews of older albums being written in the past few years, the charts get a bit skewed in favor of the reviews written closer to the first few years of the site or newer releases.

I think this would be a great time to have some "classic edition" reviewers challenges.
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Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:


 I apologize for even bringing anything up, I don't know what I was trying to get at anymore.


You been taking the stoner part of stoner metal too seriously?Wink

For me when I lose track I can blame old age.Smile
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Originally posted by Unitron Unitron wrote:


I think this would be a great time to have some "classic edition" reviewers challenges.


I'm definitely up for that.
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I don't mind setting a challenge up. Exactly what kind were you thinking though? Same album for everyone? Partners swapping albums? Random different selection from a shortlist? I'd guess swapping albums would be easiest since finding a classic that not one of the participants has reviewed would be a task and a half and random selection of different albums could prove to have the same issue. 
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Or everyone just pick a classic album they haven't reviewed yet and let loose. Of course, you would have to define exactly what constitutes "classic." I would guess its an album that appears in the top 100 but then again there are many classics that aren't popular but well-revered.
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