What do you think of Christmas?

I know alot of people might disagree, but I personally love it (being a Christian I'm pretty much destined to like it.) I saw a really heavy bashing of it on the Doom-mantia forums and it seems like all the commenters there were hating it simply because it appeals to the grey capitalistic mass. And in a way they are right...Christmas these days is nothing but a huge marketing sale. I've lived long enough to know a traditional Christmas feeling, and like pretty much everything else in these dark times the "new" Christmas is all about getting money in this factory we call society. I am one of the few who still loves the traditional holiday feeling (even though the music is done to death.)

Well, I guess the fact that early Christians commandeered existing pagan and nordic rituals and turned them into a commercial venture strikes me that it has always been that way.

However, my kids have always loved it, as I did.

As an adult its an excellent excuse to get the whole family together that isnt a wedding or a funeral.

I had an unkle (or well my mother�s sister�s boyfriend!. How do you say that in English?) who burned Christmas trees on Christmas Eve and was proud of it. Nice fellow that one. He also taught my, at the time, young cousins to smoke hash. Again what a nice guy.

Edited by UMUR - 08 Dec 2011 at 5:49am

Colt wrote: Well, I guess the fact that early Christians commandeered existing pagan and nordic rituals and turned them into a commercial venture strikes me that it has always been that way.

Vic wrote: I've always loved Christmas. Colt wrote: Well, I guess the fact that early Christians commandeered existing pagan and nordic rituals and turned them into a commercial venture strikes me that it has always been that way. I'm pretty sure early Christians did not turn them into a commercial venture. That happened pretty much the last century and I would suggest that it was probably a move not based on religious motives.

In pre-Christian Rome, the emperors compelled their most despised citizens to bring offerings and gifts during the Saturnalia (in December) and Kalends (in January).  Later, this ritual expanded to include gift-giving among the general populace.  The Catholic Church gave this custom a Christian flavour by re-rooting it in the supposed gift-giving of Saint Nicholas.

It's been going on for centuries, you need to learn your history

I don't care about christmas. Everyone assume that they have to be nicer to eachother for Jesus' birthday. It's all fake, because the rest of the year, everyone's an asshole (or not).

I like Christmas. It's relaxing being able to just chill with family and friends for a few days.  I even like some of the music (Vince Guaraldi comes to mind, as does a good choir or orchestra).  It's also the one time of year when most people are actually happy to see a big snowfall (if it actually does snow).

Colt wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: ^ I think Vic's point was about the "commercial venture" not about the tradition of gifts which is indeed universal.  I did understand the point Vic made Alex. Except my reply is still accurate, the commercial nature of Xmas is not a recent one and it was indeed solely based on religious motives. But hey, if you want to believe all that stuff, then each to their own

Sure, there's always been a commercial aspect to holidays because gifts and winter-specific products had to be produced and aquired. The point was though that the phenomenon of extreme commercialization is a modern one.

BTW I got to live in a quasi-mediaeval environment - I spent a good part of my childhood in a Romanian village, where people still relied on agriculture done by horse-powered plough and manual hoeing (is this a word?), didn't have hygiene facilities (the "toilet" was a hole in the ground in the back of the house), milked the cow manually and killed and prepared the pig with their own hands, etc. The only sign of the time was electricty; there was no TV though, just a fridge and a radio, which also didn't broadcast any entertainment of the modern kind, just propaganda and old fashioned pop music and traditional folk.

Christmas was something so completely from what can be seen in, for example, US cities... Worlds apart. There was nothing in the village to signify the arrival of the holidays, there wasn't this idea of decorating the house (it generally isn't in Europe, just the shops are decorated), we were many eras behind the idea and facilities for play music on the street; there were no commercials on the TV, ads or customized shops. The only thing was the slight sound of chant - children singing carols in the Eve night. Christmas was basically down to this elements: the religious service at church; the Christmas tree, on which the only thing bought from the city was the tinsel, all the rest was natural (baked apples for globes, actual candels for lighting, cookies). We didn't get gifts, but we sang carols and got wonderful cakes and cookies, and sometimes money. It was the most extravagant time of the year cooking wise, and the main activity during the three days was families visiting each other to enjoy all the prepared goodies. Singing carols in front of the door was mandatory and the best part actually. Those were the days...

In the city there was already a difference, we got gifts there and the notion of "Santa Claus" (Moș Crăciun) was stronger; at the country people were more religious and Christmas was mainly about the birth of Christ. No difference on the streets though.


Edited by harmonium.ro - 08 Dec 2011 at 12:47pm

harmonium.ro wrote: Colt wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: ^ I think Vic's point was about the "commercial venture" not about the tradition of gifts which is indeed universal.  I did understand the point Vic made Alex. Except my reply is still accurate, the commercial nature of Xmas is not a recent one and it was indeed solely based on religious motives. But hey, if you want to believe all that stuff, then each to their own Sure, there's always been a commercial aspect to holidays because gifts and winter-specific products had to be produced and aquired. The point was though that the phenomenon of extreme commercialization is a modern one. That I will agree with. BTW I got to live in a quasi-mediaeval environment - I spent a good part of my childhood in a Romanian village, where people still relied on agriculture done by horse-powered plough and manual hoeing (is this a word?), didn't have hygiene facilities (the "toilet" was a hole in the ground in the back of the house), milked the cow manually and killed and prepared the pig with their own hands, etc. The only sign of the time was electricty; there was no TV though, just a fridge and a radio, which also didn't broadcast any entertainment of the modern kind, just propaganda and old fashioned pop music and traditional folk. I was born on a farm nearly 50 years ago. What you quote is not much different to the faming community in this country at that time. Hoeing is indeed a word, I have done that plenty of times in my life There were no showers, I bathed in a metal bath in front of an open fire. The toilet was a shed at the bottom of the garden or a pot under your bed if you needed to go during the night. I saw my first colour TV when I was 12 years old. Christmas was something so completely from what can be seen in, for example, US cities... Worlds apart. There was nothing in the village to signify the arrival of the holidays, there wasn't this idea of decorating the house (it generally isn't in Europe, just the shops are decorated), we were many eras behind the idea and facilities for play music on the street; there were no commercials on the TV, ads or customized shops. The only thing was the slight sound of chant - children singing carols in the Eve night. Christmas was basically down to this elements: the religious service at church; the Christmas tree, on which the only thing bought from the city was the tinsel, all the rest was natural (baked apples for globes, actual candels for lighting, cookies). We didn't get gifts, but we sang carols and got wonderful cakes and cookies, and sometimes money. It was the most extravagant time of the year cooking wise, and the main activity during the three days was families visiting each other to enjoy all the prepared goodies. Singing carols in front of the door was mandatory and the best part actually. Those were the days... In the city there was already a difference, we got gifts there and the notion of "Santa Claus" (Moș Crăciun) was stronger; at the country people were more religious and Christmas was mainly about the birth of Christ. No difference on the streets though. What you talk of, is a cultural difference and a time gap between civilisations catching up. I was forced to visit church (my family were VERY religious) where outside were the local traders selling their wares and given a hymn sheet full of small boxes advertising the local shops and traders. Its just the format that has changed. There is a marked difference here to between the urban and rural populations. Oh and Christmas Tree's that other pagan practice the christians nicked to try to recruit them.

UMUR wrote: Colt wrote: Christmas has alway been about sexual indulgence, singing naked house to house (carol singing its called these days), drinking excessively (thats not changed either) and guess what giving presents.   Christmas is so fuckin� metal(now I finally have an excuse to go naked from house to house drunk like hell singing like crazy)