William Shakespeare vs J. S. Bach |
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The Pessimist
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Posted: 22 Apr 2010 at 9:07am |
So who is more of a genius in your opinion? The Englishman who revolutionarised the English Language, of the German who revolutionarised the tonal system and harmony in music?
Take your pick. I pick Bach, simply because I can appreciate his work more. |
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thellama73
Forum Groupie Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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I am not too much of a fan of either. Shakespeare is often hackneyed and Bach is overly academic. However, when it comes to raw talent, there's no denying that Bach is way ahead. Have you ever tried to write a fugue? It's insanely hard, and this man could improvise them on command. I'd like to see Shakespeare improvise a play off the top of his head.
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Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves.
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The Pessimist
MMA Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 07 Apr 2010 Location: Stratford, UK Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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You can't really compare a Fugue to a play. A Fugue is about 6 pages long, maximum. A play can be a few thousand pages long, so there is no comparison. Comparing an oratorio to a play would be more legit, and I doubt there is a single human throughout history that could improvise either of those things.
And Shakespeare could probably improvise a monologue of superb intricacy, which I'd say is about the same magnitude in difficulty to write as a Fugue.
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thellama73
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Having spent a semester attempting it, I believe that writing a good fugue is much harder than writing a good monologue, but obviously it's a matter of opinion.
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Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves.
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The Pessimist
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Depends where your talents lie I suppose. I'm a music student so I wouldn't even know where to start with a monologue or soliloquy; however I HAVE written a few fugues in the past, and although incredibly hard (I agree with you on that one), still not as hard as a monologue in my opinion. Whereas I doubt a playwrite would be able to write a fugue very effectively.
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topofsm
MMA Metal Reviewer Joined: 30 Mar 2010 Location: Hate state, USA Status: Offline Points: 689 |
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A monlogue is rather short, I think the comparison would be more easily made to a scene or an act in a play. And, of course, it can be rather simple to write one, but not so much on the intricacy and mastery of language of Shakespeare.
I may be a musically oriented person, but I am confounded by Shakespeare's ability do do what he did. I will buffer the bias from this music site a bit by voting for the bard.
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Lost respect for these archives when I saw Creed added, among other bands. Not going to be foruming here anymore. You can keep my reviews if you want.
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The Pessimist
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That is exactly what I like to see
By the way topofsm, are you going to produce any metal collages while you're here? I'd love to see a few |
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J-Man
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Bach is a musical genius.
Shakespeare is a genius of playwrite. Those points are both undeniable. It simply boils down to personal taste, and for me, it's got to be Johann Sebastian on this one. |
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Any Colour You Like
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Apart from the fact you cannot compare them, Shakespeare is an undeniable monolithic figure in western literature and society.
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NJCat_11
Forum Senior Member Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Denver, CO Status: Offline Points: 244 |
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As much as I love Shakespeare, Bach is perhaps the most prolific composer in history (although I prefer Vivaldi). Both Shakespeare and Bach revolutionized their respective fields but I much prefer music to literature.
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The T 666
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For me there's no question. My more than 25 cd's of his music should be a telling sign of my preference. What he did with a language that is totally abstract is absolutely majestic, and will never be equaled. Whoever says that his music is purely academic has never really heard it, for it can reach one's soul and heart as easily as a romantic.
Shakespeare is a genius on its own right. But for me the greatest artist of all time PERIOD in all regards is and will always be Johann Sebastian Bach.
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NJCat_11
Forum Senior Member Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Denver, CO Status: Offline Points: 244 |
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One way to piss off a classical music connoisseur:
Refer to Bach's Toccata & Fugue in D minor as "that Halloween song." Absolute masterpiece. |
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thellama73
Forum Groupie Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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Don't get me wrong, The Brandenburg Concertos are magnificent and much of his violin music and orchestral works are as well. But I've mainly studied his keyboard works and I feel that in much of it (certainly not all) he tends to get so caught up in intervals, parallel fifth, thematic transposition and so forth that he forgot to write music. |
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Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves.
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The T 666
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I see what you mean. Of course sitting through all 48 prelude and fugues of Das Well Tempered Klavier is quite an undertaking, but when he writes beautiful music, he can't be touched. And as irreligious as I am, the only moments when I doubt my doubts occur when I listen to the kind of unearthly sounds that this man composed for a higher power that he only saw in his heart... No academicism there... Just art of the highest kind.
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NJCat_11
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One of my favorite examples of this would be St. Matthew Passion (Mathaus Passion). Edited by NJCat_11 - 22 Apr 2010 at 11:41pm |
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topofsm
MMA Metal Reviewer Joined: 30 Mar 2010 Location: Hate state, USA Status: Offline Points: 689 |
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No sir, I made my avatar with MS Paint and it took longer than anyone should take on an avatar. That and Henry from PA put the lens flare in it.
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Lost respect for these archives when I saw Creed added, among other bands. Not going to be foruming here anymore. You can keep my reviews if you want.
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Harry
Forum Groupie Joined: 31 Mar 2010 Location: Melbourne, Aus Status: Offline Points: 84 |
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I never "got" Shakespeare.
It just never clicked as particularly interesting to me. Bach however, is the man. |
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Raff
Forum Senior Member Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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Since this is a music forum, it's not surprising that Bach is running away with this poll. In my personal opinion, it's very much an 'apples and oranges' question - comparing a writer with a composer (or a painter, for that matter) is next to impossible. Anyway, being more familiar with Shakespeare's work than Bach's (I have a degree in English Literature, after all), I'll give my vote to the Bard, who wrote some of the most beautiful (and true) words on the human condition that I have ever happened to read.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member Joined: 27 Mar 2010 Location: non-euclidean Status: Offline Points: 262 |
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Shakespeare, of course. Nobody impacted Western culture the way Shakespeare did. Music may be important, but we speak with words.
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Time Signature
MMA Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: 04 Apr 2010 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 7690 |
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I can't even begin to compare them, so I haven't voted. They were geniuses within two very different spheres of art. I think that Shakespeare may be more important in the sense that more people are exposed to his works - I mean Shakespeare is typically a compulsory topic in secondary and university level courses. But of course, that's poopular opinion, and it doesn't say much about the genius of Shakespeare or Bach, but about the importance/accessibility of the media they worked within.
Like Raff, I have a degree in English language and literature, so I've read my share of Shakespeare, and I've found that I actually do not like to read Shakespeare's plays. I prefer to watch theatrical or cinematic interpretations. And that's how the plays were intended to be experienced - in some form of stage drama. I feel that it's when you see how his plays can be interpreted over and over again in very different way that you see what his genius really was. |
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