Abortion
Printed From: MetalMusicArchives.com
Category: Topics not related to music
Forum Name: General discussions
Forum Description: Discuss any topic at all that is not music-related
URL: http://www.MetalMusicArchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1913
Printed Date: 22 Dec 2024 at 12:31am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 10.16 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Abortion
Posted By: J-Man
Subject: Abortion
Date Posted: 22 May 2011 at 6:03pm
A thread about this controversial topic was going to happen soon enough, so I'd figure that I should be the one to finally start it.  What are your thoughts on abortion? Is it a moral procedure? Should be legal, and if so, under which circumstances? As most of you know, I'm an atheist and secular humanist. Unlike most atheists, however, I am a "pro-lifer" or whatever other terminology you choose. Once I gave up my religious beliefs and realized that this is the one and only life any of us are sure to ever experience, I gained a new appreciation and love towards nature and human life. Abortion (aside from the scenario in which the baby harms the mother's life) seems like a highly immoral and, quite honestly, evil procedure to me. I would regard most abortion scenarios to be the equivalent of murder. However, my stance on the legality of the issue is still undetermined. I think it should probably remain legal (I'm a libertarian after all), but it seems like a largely immoral act to me. Of course, I'm willing to discuss and possibly change my views on this topic.  ------------- Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Replies:
Posted By: The Angry Scotsman
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 3:32am
Good thing MMA is so slow still...we don't need this one to explode  Sounds like a cop out but I am 100% sincere: I just don't know. Mulled it over a long time and have spent times on both sides of the fence, but always took down my camp to walk to the other side! My gut says: "pro life" I kind of hate that term but my mind wants to say "You know it would still continue, lets be realistic" so make it as safe as possible. There are of course the situations like rape, where one can wonder if forcing her to keep it is morally wrong. It was unasked for, unwanted, forced upon her...she would have to carry it, birth it (no walk in the park!) and either raise it or put it up for adoption, 100% due to an outside circumstance. In this scenario who knows the impact on adoption it would have. Oh, also what about different stages of pregnancy? At the very undeveloped level is it permissible? A sticky wicket that I honestly have no damn clue where I stand yet. And yes, coming from someone who is secular and anti religious. Kind of scary how it has become almost divided as a religious/secular thing...given what is at hand I do hope it gets thought about and not just carried along! I used to go about it without thought being a good liberal...but I have a deep respect for all life (Ive been called a hippie too many times) so I never felt right being 100% dedicated to "pro choice" GAH! I went on too long again ------------- Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer and Testament. The real Big Four of thrash metal! Listen to doom metal, worship Satan |
Posted By: The Angry Scotsman
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 3:33am
|
In an ideal world...make sure the support, education, and facilities will always be there so the number can be reduced to only the emergencies. Keep it legal, safe and rare. For my political run in the future  ------------- Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer and Testament. The real Big Four of thrash metal! Listen to doom metal, worship Satan |
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 3:51am
|
I'm pro-choice. Abortion is a complex social issue, and having an abortion is not, to me, per se immoral.In fact, I think that strict pro-life is immoral. ------------- 
|
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 3:53am
|
In the ideal world, of course everything would be "pro-life". But, as Brian said there are plenty of situations where the ideal is obviously not happening in this universe. That being said, I feel there definitely should be more restrictions on it. If either the mother's or the baby's life may be compromised with the birth, then obviously that should be taken into consideration. I feel that adoption is an option that far too many people don't consider. I feel a lot of the time that the possibility of the child growing up to be "unwanted" is a somewhat frail excuse for an expecting mother who doesn't want to go through the procedure. Perhaps I should not judge too harshly, since I am a male and will never house new life, but I honestly think that the pregnant woman should "man up" in a sense and go through the consequences, instead of renouncing responsibility. I will try not to make myself look righteous or whatever by saying that I would follow through with my actions because I am accountable, but I feel if I had the option I would bear the weight of pregnancy. Ultimately, it's a tough issue that would be made all the easier if the fetus' sentience was more clarified. ------------- Lost respect for these archives when I saw Creed added, among other bands. Not going to be foruming here anymore. You can keep my reviews if you want. |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 4:11am
|
There�s no need to bring a new life into this world if you are not able to take care of it. We have enough homeless, starving kids without parents or with parents that are not able to provide them with love and care in this world already. People against abortion usually have this standpoint out of a religious belief, but IMO that doesn�t qualify as a good reason. We are animals, and just because we have a more evolved brain than most animals do, we shouldn�t let morals or religious bogus get in the way of rational acts. If you can�t take care of your child for whatever reason, you shouldn�t have it!
My opinion of course  .------------- http://www.lyngby-boldklub.dk/" rel="nofollow - Forever TRUE - Forever BLUE! https://rateyourmusic.com/~UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR on RYM |
Posted By: bartosso
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 7:45am
|
Since the fetus is connected with woman's body, depend on her vital energy and is fed and protected inside her, I think it should be mother's choice if she want to keep it or not. I know that the thing becomes even more serious and controversial when the fetus grows and becomes more and more human-like, but legally, it still shouldn't be forbidden. As for moral aspects... well, it's not so easy. I mean for parents, especially mothers that are considering abortion, it must be a terrible dilemma. But again, I think that human, as other animals, shouldn't be considered an independent being till its birth - before that it's just a part of pregnant woman's body.
I know it may sound callous but really that's what I think. I'll never be pregnant so maybe I'll never fully understand it, but for me it's just another reason to be pro-choice. If you can't understand something, try not to make others miserable because of your ignorance. ------------- http://shrineofllyria.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - http://shrineofllyria.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 2:52pm
You know, I actually agree with almost all of this! Considering that abortions will occur no matter what, the best solution is to try and keep people educated and keep the procedure as safe as possible. I'm morally opposed to abortion (I couldn't ever imagine supporting someone I love getting an abortion), but I think it should probably be legal. My stance on the legal/illegal debate is fairly unstable... I just know that I don't support it, and I'd like to keep abortion to a minimum (by providing education, birth control, etc.).------------- Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
The Angry Scotsman wrote:Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 3:18pm
|
To be honest, like most any subject, I'm not truly sure of my stance on the issue until I am directly affected by it. Thus far, I haven't been pulled into a personal abortion debate. However, abortion is legal in Canada, and I have no desire to change that law. I guess that makes me pro-choice. ------------- https://armchairmaestro.com/" rel="nofollow - My Music Blog |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: 23 May 2011 at 4:13pm
| I'm pro-killing unborn babies. |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: 24 May 2011 at 1:57am
^Very subtle Colin, very subtle ------------- http://www.lyngby-boldklub.dk/" rel="nofollow - Forever TRUE - Forever BLUE! https://rateyourmusic.com/~UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR on RYM |
Posted By: SKwid
Date Posted: 24 May 2011 at 2:10am
|
honestly, i think that what people do to themselves or their unborn children is their business, and i really don't give a fuck about other peoples business and i don't see why other people do.
im neither pro-life or pro-choice, im pro-WhoTheFuckCares, because i certainly dont
-------------  
|
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: 24 May 2011 at 7:35pm
I don't completely disagree with you (actually I do sorta agree), but under this same topic, should I not care about murder because it's none of my business? I'm playing the devil's advocate here, but I'm just wondering what your insight is here. ------------- Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: 24 May 2011 at 7:36pm
Yep pretty much. I live in this year's murder capital of Canada and yet as long as they don't shoot me I can't be arsed. |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: 24 May 2011 at 7:38pm
You know the entire religious vs. secular debate when it comes to abortion really baffles me. Nowhere in the Bible does it even reference abortion... it seems odd to me that almost all Christians are opposed to abortion when this opposition isn't obtained through their religious text. ------------- Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: 24 May 2011 at 7:39pm
So you don't care about law enforcement then? ------------- Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: 24 May 2011 at 7:40pm
No comment 
|
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: 24 May 2011 at 7:41pm
|
^ You're even more of a libertarian than I am!
------------- Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Balthamel
Date Posted: 25 May 2011 at 3:22am
as an unrelated note, I would like to shoot in that when i was in a theater in York with the Lexicology class, we was offerd the upper seats, which was like the thrid balcony, and it was really far up, and me who have the worsed fear of hights ever, breathed heavyely, but as I noticed in the cealing of the theater was a HUGE light globe, light crone (something), and I was very happy I did not sit in the lower seats, and I said if that falls i am happy i sat this far upp,  ------------- 
|
Posted By: The Angry Scotsman
Date Posted: 25 May 2011 at 5:34pm
|
It is a sticky wicket, I also want to say as a man I kind of have to be pro choice because it's not even mine to make. Unless I was in the unfortunate situation of having my input asked. It's just so complicated. Stupid teen going around having sex because they can just abort it...a married couple who happened to have an accident (happens we know) but with jobs, a house, etc a young couple who had an accident and don't have the means to support one. ugh...yeah my official opinion is still I have absolutely no fucking clue. ------------- Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer and Testament. The real Big Four of thrash metal! Listen to doom metal, worship Satan |
Posted By: SKwid
Date Posted: 26 May 2011 at 2:18am
the popo will find my cheese pizza -------------
|
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: 30 May 2011 at 8:31pm
I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here (  ), but why is abortion the only answer in that scenario? Of course, I agree that starving children is a huge problem... but is the best solution then to kill the fetus? I'm still somewhat unsure of my stance on this issue, but I think getting an abortion for that reason alone is immoral.If abortion actually is murder (which I'm not completely sure if it is or isn't ) then it should be treated as such. Should we kill starving children because they're going hungry? And if not, why is acceptable before birth? Again, this isn't necessarily my position - I'm just playing devil's advocate. ------------- Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Andyman1125
Date Posted: 30 May 2011 at 9:35pm
This. ------------- http://bit.ly/kZR7BC" rel="nofollow">  http://andywebb.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - My Bandcamp
|
Posted By: cannon
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 11:13pm
|
Pro choice. A girl I was with during my 20's had three abortions. Basically it was her choice and well it should be. My input, for what is was worth was to have the abortions.The third time she let it go late into the pregnancy(I never did find out the reason why) and had to go over to Vancouver to have the procedure done.
On my way over there(via ferry) I passed a billboard about abortion and then when I was on the ferry a couple was talking about it. This lead me to very heavy heart.
I arrived at the clinic only to find protesters outside. Man oh man, for some reason and even until this day I can't come up with a reason why I was so friggin' scarred. It took everything I had to walk through that line into the clinic and also knowing that there her mom was there also(wasn't the reason I was terrified, she was a great lady).
Of course in hindsight it was the right thing to do.
|
Posted By: Any Colour You Like
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 3:20am
|
Oh sh- I'm not even touching this. |
Posted By: The Angry Scotsman
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 1:56am
Might as well, this has been 9000X cleaner, more respectful and sane than anything on PA. And metal heads are supposed to be the closed minded stupid ones ------------- Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer and Testament. The real Big Four of thrash metal! Listen to doom metal, worship Satan |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 3:29pm
I can only imagine where a thread like this would go on PA....  ------------- Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: The Angry Scotsman
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 6:14pm
Check the libertarian thread. You can find some real winners in there. Last I saw they were talking abortion there. Ironically enough the usual insane ones are pretty sane It is great that we are small, (and cool) enough to talk about this stuff as well as genre related things with pretty much no problem.  MMA ftw------------- Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer and Testament. The real Big Four of thrash metal! Listen to doom metal, worship Satan |
Posted By: Andyman1125
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 7:17pm
|
My religion teacher once told me if I was pro-choice I was pro-abortion. I lol'd. ------------- http://bit.ly/kZR7BC" rel="nofollow"> http://andywebb.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - My Bandcamp
|
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 7:26pm
I'm against abortion from a moral standpoint, but I tend to think it's something that should be legal. That's like saying "if you support the Westboro Baptist Church's protection under the first ammendment, you support homophobia!". I've been told that before too. ------------- Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: The Angry Scotsman
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 7:33pm
Keep it safe, legal, and rare is what I currently like to go with! Despite my jumbly feelings..in the end I just couldn't say "make it illegal" Oh god did someone REALLY say that? (And mean it) I do find it so sad how most of our fellow Americans are quick to throw freedom of speech around, but only seem to apply it to themselves/can't realize it has be all or nothing. "WBC is fucked up, but unless they physically harm someone they can't be stopped" "ZOMG you want all gays to die!?" ...  ------------- Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer and Testament. The real Big Four of thrash metal! Listen to doom metal, worship Satan |