Metal if Prog hadnt happend
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Forum Description: General metal music discussions (no polls)
URL: http://www.MetalMusicArchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2738
Printed Date: 02 Jan 2025 at 4:25pm
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Topic: Metal if Prog hadnt happend
Posted By: Balthamel
Subject: Metal if Prog hadnt happend
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 7:29am
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Just curious If it just happend that psychdalic/progressive rock did not happen, or existed, would there have been metal, would metal as a genre existed if ther had not been psychadelic/progressive rock movement, what would metal have sounded like if the only imput were the blues based hard rock proto metal bands (even they had prog-elements), but what if all prog was exclueded from peoples memorys and history, what if it just not had taken place, like drawing a big line over  ) it just scared me if that happend, would theri only be bands like Mot�rhead, AC/DC and their like, what if Lynyrd Skynyrd and ZZ Top were the only influance on metal, this though accored to me when i made a hip hop poll in PA  , that hip hop would not have existed if their had been no Jazz, if Jazz was excluded from peoples memory rap (and obviously most modern popular music)) would have just not happend, or it would only be samples or spoken word over Blues samples , also this is halfway a insane way for me to implay that the moniker for PA, MMA, JMA should be for Rap also, RMA and that such a site is needed, a civil place for discussing rap, in a more politemanner, it works for MMA and i was afraid MMA would turn into a swearing pool, but it hassent, not that rap is just swearing. ok alot of different angles in this thread it is almost a blogg, but it is about metal but also about just development of different generes or what if a previous genre just did not take place (by a mystery not known to me), what say you ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 7:35am
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I'd say that without prog, no metal. Without blues, no metal. Without rock 'n' roll, no metal. Without psychedelic rock, no metal. etc. Metal is, and has always been, a bastard genre... which is why I love it so much.
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Posted By: Kingcrimsonprog
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 7:37am
This -------------  My Blog: http://kingcrimsonprog.wordpress.com/ |
Time Signature wrote:Posted By: Vic
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 7:38am
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Well, I am not good in these hypotheticals, I can only say it would be different and someone would eventually play something similar anyway, you can't contain the Muse and all that. But of course there would be metal. BLACK SABBATH. ------------- 42 |
Posted By: Balthamel
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 7:39am
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i agree but if you took out the element of prog in metal how would metal have evolved moved, it is difficult to imposible to answer but it sure would have sounded different
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Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 9:44am
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I've always thought of prog(gressiveness) as a frame of mind rather than a blanket musical movement. People will always want to push boundaries in any walk of life. ------------- https://armchairmaestro.com/" rel="nofollow - My Music Blog |
Posted By: Kingcrimsonprog
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 11:09am
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Dream Theatre would be interesting to hear if the people still formed a band. ------------- My Blog: http://kingcrimsonprog.wordpress.com/ |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 1:24pm
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Posted By: Wilytank
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 8:22pm
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I'm sure Haken would be considered a pop act. ------------- 
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Posted By: LittleBig
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 5:32am
well said.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 7:18pm
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^ yeah, Time Signature pretty much nailed it which was the nail in the coffin of this thread! Next  ------------- 
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Posted By: Unitron
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 8:14pm
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It depends on what definition of prog is being used. If prog means legitimately progressive, I.E. a sense of innovation, than every single new genre of music is progressive. If prog as in the genre of progressive rock, metal would absolutely exist without progressive rock existing. Metal was mostly created out of psychedelic rock and blues rock, and various bands utilized elements of other genres. ------------- If I say fuck two more times that's forty-six fucks in this fucked up rhyme |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 9:10pm
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without prog there still would have been Sabbath and Motorhead bands like Maiden and Priest would likely have gone a different, punkier direction the development of thrash metal wouldn't have changed much virtually nothing in the black metal family tree has to do with prog rock there would be no prog metal, naturally, and the evolution of death metal would be vastly different
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Posted By: LittleBig
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 11:34pm
prog rock also means that experimental attitude, going beyond the simple verse-chorus-verse structure that a lot of metal subgenres are doing, including black metal. I doubt Priest would have gone punk, possibly some hard rock, blues rock, the only Priest album touched by prog is their second one. So I don't know. I also think Hawkwind was a good influence on Lemmy as a musician, so no Hawkwind, what would change with Motorhead?
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Posted By: Vim Fuego
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 12:25am
Without prog, no punk required.
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Posted By: LittleBig
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 12:30am
or so the mainstream music media wants us to think. maybe if progressive music never existed, God knows what would have been instead of it.
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Posted By: Unitron
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 11:50am
That experimental attitude didn't start with and wasn't exclusive to prog rock, and prog rock could be just as derivative as any other genre. That's why I wish prog rock was just called symphonic rock or something, the progressive (and alternative for that matter) label doesn't work for a music genre when literally any new kind of music is a progression. Metal pretty much started out not being verse-chorus-verse, due to psychedelic rock's jam nature. I think Hawkwind would still exist, they're more psychedelic rock than they are prog rock imo. They don't really have any of the symphonic element or flashy instrumentation of prog.
Punk would exist without prog too, The Stooges and MC5 were around at the same time. ------------- If I say fuck two more times that's forty-six fucks in this fucked up rhyme |
Posted By: LittleBig
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 12:10pm
prog was more than just symphonic prog, Krautrock, eclectic are not flashy, probably symph and fusion were the most flashy, maybe heavy prog (Rush, Heep). Psychedelic music was an influence on prog, as was on hard rock and early metal. Hawkwind was quite experimental, a quality of progressive music.
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 12:30pm
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More to the point, Motorhead (which is heavily rooted in Chuck Berry, Little Richard, MC5, etc) indicates Lemmy's influences don't really align with the rest of Hawkwind. Even the handful of songs he composed for Hawkwind sound like Motorhead
I will agree that the influence of Krautrock - most of which is closer to psych rock than to typical prog rock - on a lot of metal music is probably underexplored "experimental" is not the qualifier than makes something prog rock, because if it was then the Kinks are prog rock for poking holes in speakers, and John Coltrane and Miles Davis and Sun Ra are prog rock, and Elvis is prog rock...
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Posted By: LittleBig
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 12:39pm
I was just saying that Hawkwind was beneficial for Lemmy, a good thing for him. Before Hawkwind, he was in a band called Sam Gopal, which was a psychedelic folk rock of sorts, he played guitar and sang.
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 12:52pm
I think you, me and Unitron are mostly saying the same thing in different ways 
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Posted By: LittleBig
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 1:00pm
"experimental" is one of the qualifiers. I think Coltrane was an influence on some prog musicians, and Davis did fusion for a while. Elvis was never experimental if you ask me. Funny thing, I keep writing "experimetal" instead of "experimental"
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 1:11pm
| Coltrane is like 30% of Magma's sound so that alone makes him an influence on prog rock |