NWOBHMB really??
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Topic: NWOBHMB really??
Posted By: Sean Trane
Subject: NWOBHMB really??
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 6:33am
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Hi guys, just having time now to discover this new place
Don't assume I'm here to critcize, though. ven though my first post is in the errors & omissions forum
BUT
Just a question, if I may??
Judas Priest, Gillan, Whitesnake and Motorhead in NWOBHMB????
 All of them existed well before the creation of that movement
surely the Purple spin-offs should be with Rainbow
Geeez, this place looks like PA, but no-one found the light switch yet
 hint: it's in AC/DC 's section at flick of the switch
  JK, cool place ------------- my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones.... 
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Replies:
Posted By: PROGMAN
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 11:20am
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Hi Sean long time no see. MMaybe because they were more popular towards that era? e.g. British Steel,Ace of Spades was around that time. But your right they existed before that era, Trad. Metal? |
Posted By: The T 666
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 5:21pm
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They are all widely known the world over as bands belonging to or pioneers of the NWOBHM sound.... I think they fit just fine where they are... Their careers may predate the movement in theory, but in reality, they also belonged to it. ------------- 
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 6:24pm
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Not to cause an argument, but NWOBHM is a movement, not a genre. NWOBHM bands are all heavy metal bands rooted in the traditional metal genre. This is why we shouldn't have NWOBHM as a subgenre, because it's basically traditional metal, except for those prominent during a certain time period. It's sort of like Neo-prog at PA, which is basically Genesis based symphonic prog anyways. ------------- Lost respect for these archives when I saw Creed added, among other bands. Not going to be foruming here anymore. You can keep my reviews if you want. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 7:06pm
Not true at all. Some bands may be Genesis-based (the earlier ones at least), but Neo is much more diverse than that. I have heard enough bands filed under Neo at PA to be able to say so. As to NWoBHM, it is recognised as a genre by other sites (like the BNR Metal Pages), and in any case I don't believe anyone is going to agree to scrap the subgenre now. People have been working hard to move bands there from other subs, and I don't really think they want to move them back once again. |
topofsm wrote:Posted By: micky
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 7:10pm
it's like M@X said... it's all a work in progress. The whole site is. I'm pretty sure Mark (CertIffied and Jeff) know enough about NWOBHM to decide what is..and is not. 
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 7:20pm
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Well, at least with NWOBHM you don't need to mention the country these bands come from. But I am afraid that's the only difference between them and the other heavy metal bands (the term "traditional" makes me think of the folklore of a country). |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 7:29pm
| So, if you don't like the word 'traditional', what would you suggest using? I am sure M@x will at least take it into consideration if you have a viable proposal. |
Posted By: m@x
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 7:31pm
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Yes,
I want the site to be a good source of information for visitors. But the last week decisions about PROTO, NWOBHM vs Tradition Heavy Metal now bring some doubts... Not that I want to undo things, I just want to take the opportunity to organize and name things better. Idea 1: In the sub-genre left main bar of the site, since Traditional Heavy (historically) includes the movement of the NWoBHM and we might say also that the albums tagged as PROTO could be included in TRAD. HEAVY METAL. Considering the major importances of this ERA , we need to have things clear. We can list them in the left bar like that: METAL SUB-GENRES
I think this might improve the quality and credibility of the site. Suggestions ? |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 7:32pm
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I agree. Of course, the NWOBHM bands will have a tendency to sound like each other, it's only natural for a certain movement. However, you can't deny that they are all heavy metal, which is a kind of traditional. Besides, I think there's a ton of discrepancy in the bands in the genre. Most bands sound closer to traditional anyways. You also have to consider that none of Def Leppard's albums, even the first, sounded anything like for example Iron Maiden, who sounds nothing like Motorhead, who sounds nothing like Saxon, who sounds nothing like Venom, all of whom are included in our current NWOBHM category. I do understand that there have been people hard at work polishing up the genres, and I respect that. However I think the best help I can offer is my opinion and insight. ------------- Lost respect for these archives when I saw Creed added, among other bands. Not going to be foruming here anymore. You can keep my reviews if you want. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 7:37pm
| I will never be the kind of person to start bickering about subgenres, but I have to ask a question... Do bands that are in the same subgenre have to sound the same (whatever that means)? Yes do not sound anything like Genesis or ELP, yet the three of them are in Symphonic Prog. And what about the bands in Progressive Metal? Do Pain of Salvation sound like Dream Theater? Of course not. |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 7:46pm
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I think M@x's proposition is a pretty good one. Having those three traditional metal links would be a good compromise either way. I think that's the point of a genre, for people to find bands in the category they like. Of course, there will always be crossover into other genres, for example all of Devin Townsend's works sounding stylistically similar while at the same time fitting into many different metal (and ambient) categories. However, I wouldn't want drastically different bands in the same group, examples being those I listed. ------------- Lost respect for these archives when I saw Creed added, among other bands. Not going to be foruming here anymore. You can keep my reviews if you want. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 8:29pm
NWOBHMB was indeed a mvement created by the music weekly Sounds, just like Punk was (by NME) and New Wave (by Melody Maker)
I don't remember you from the PA forum (but your avatar leaves little doubt), so I'm not sure you're familiar with RIO.... in itself it is not a musical genre, but a chart signed by groups that vow they will never bow to commercial pressure and start making mainstream music. Muically, RIO was all over the spectrum and we linked it to Avant Prog,..... So it is a movement, but there is no way I could imagine not having RIO mentioned somewhere in the database (or Canterbury as well), much like I can't imagine avoiding the NWOHMB (as a genre or category) in this database >>> NWOBHMB is unavoidable >>> not using it would be diminishing our cerdibility ------------- my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 9:47pm
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^That's true, which is why M@x's proposition is a good one. At PA there is a RIO/Avant-prog category, as opposed to two separate categories. I'm not terribly familiar with the RIO bands, but from what I hear they aren't terribly similar, but they played experimental and unusual rock based music, essentially the same as the rest of the bands in the avant-prog category. Although they were in their own musical movement, they all fell under the same term as other bands who played the same style. The same goes for NWOBHM. Although there is a significantly larger amount of bands in the NWOBHM movement than RIO, the idea is essentially the same. They are all heavy metal bands, which falls under the traditional metal term. By putting in the subcategory, we both acknowledge the importance of the movement without giving any misconceptions that it's a separate musical style, which it isn't. As for Canterbury, I'm not familiar too much with it either, but although it was a movement it was also significantly separate in style enough to merit a separate genre category at PA AFAIK. ------------- Lost respect for these archives when I saw Creed added, among other bands. Not going to be foruming here anymore. You can keep my reviews if you want. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2010 at 11:08am
OK, I know Riome wasn't built in one day (it took them at least a week )
But if Sabbath's discography has a proto and NWOBHMB genre
 at a different stage (with Heaven & Hell.... being the hinge album, here) >> this is where this new system does get interesting Why can't we do the same with Judas Priest with pre-British Steel albums???  ------------- my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2010 at 2:45pm
Thanks micky... I know I can count on you!  Yeah, Judas Priest is NWOBHM whether you like it or not... in fact they may be the most famous band in the entire movement.... ------------- Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2010 at 4:25pm
of course they are... but... oh hell... let me just quote myself from a different thread hahah
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2010 at 4:36pm
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Just for the record: Black Sabbath have NO albums whatsoever in NWoBHM. All their albums from Heaven and Hell onwards have been moved to Trad HM - where also Heaven & Hell (the band) has been placed when I added it yesterday. Personally, I don't agree with having Priest in NWoBHM, because they predate the whole movement by a good four or five years. However, their influence on the NWoBHM is undeniable, so I think British Steel can sit more or less comfortably there. Not so sure about their later albums though. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2010 at 3:59am
Ooops, you're entirely right, Raff, my bad
 . H&H( the album) and further albums are of course in trad metal, exactly where they belong. For Priest, I have no problem with Brit Steel and further albums (certainly until Turbo but beyond as well)sitting on NWOBHMB, but at least Rocka Rolla, Sad Wings and Sin After Sin should be either proto or trad mretal (I'd prefer the former)
and for Stained Class and KM/Hell Bent, logic would have them in either proto or trad as well , but here either suits my logic.
and will stop making a fuss about this after this post ------------- my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2010 at 12:33pm
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^I agree. Again, NWOBHM is a movement rather than a genre, but Priest helped define it. However, the early albums weren't even part of the movement, so they should fit in the Traditional category. ------------- Lost respect for these archives when I saw Creed added, among other bands. Not going to be foruming here anymore. You can keep my reviews if you want. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2010 at 1:46pm
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^ and I agree... it's like i tried to say before... this is not PA's and our PA's friends and transplants need to understand that it isn't. By the site placing Priest in NWOBHM the site is not declaring Priest to definitively BE NWOBHM.. what the site is doing is recognizing the fact that they helped define it... that NO genre that exists here.. or anywhere can accurately place them across the expanse of their career where they have done Prog Metal.. traditional metal... even perhaps proto metal. Those albums that weren't part of of the defining of NWOBHM will be labelled into the genres that they fit. it is... the perfect system... one that is even more needed.. due to the variety of the output of the artists.. at PA's. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2010 at 2:19pm
| OK, Priest's Seventies albums have all been moved to Trad HM (at least for the time being). I will leave British Steel and the other early Eighties albums in NWoBHM, and move the others later. Unfortunately, the site is very slow to load for me, and such a task takes much longer than it should. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2010 at 6:34pm
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Thanks Raff!!! ------------- my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicted musicians to crazy ones....
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