Steve Vai solo
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Category: Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements
Forum Name: Suggest new bands/artists to MMA
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Metal Music Archives
URL: http://www.MetalMusicArchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=416
Printed Date: 22 Dec 2024 at 1:05am
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Topic: Steve Vai solo
Posted By: Negoba
Subject: Steve Vai solo
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2010 at 4:48pm
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I've looked several times, and I don't see Steve Vai solo here. Seems like a no-brainer...just which genre.
Opinions?
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Replies:
Posted By: NJCat_11
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2010 at 5:10pm
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That's definitely a tough one. Songs like "The Animal" and "Bad Horsie" exemplify some of the heaviest virtuoso metal I've heard. And yet songs such as "Rescue Me or Bury Me" have nothing to do with the genre. It definitely speaks to his compositional diversity and versatility as the amazing player he is. Yngwie is listed in Symphonic Metal, but I don't think they have much in common. He definitely fits somewhere, perhaps in his very own sub-genre.  ------------- http://www.chess.com/members/view/NJCat?ref_id=1432587 - Come and play me at Chess.com http://www.youtube.com/user/NJCat?feature=mhw4 - Homepage |
Posted By: 1967/ 1976
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2010 at 4:00am
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Uhm... Not difficult. Vai is metal for me but without metal songs... Not strange. Vai is only a guitar hero. Vai in MMA... For me this caseis odd. I don't approve "if X is here... There must also be Y". But never like this I think this should be applied. Vai, sure, is part of Metal world, no discussion. But this is the correct place for Vai? I think yes, because Vai have a Metal attitude. But my sentence must not think badly of me. I'm not a fan of Vai. I think only that Vai is a great metal guitar hero without to play metal music. ------------- 
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Posted By: MAVIIIVAM
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2010 at 9:32pm
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Well, I think there should be a catagory called either "Solo Guitarists" or "Shredders". Big Fan of Vai and many other Shredders that could use a sub-catagory. Though many like Vai have different facits to their music, thats why Progulus.com has them on the playlist . . . theyre Progressive, in Metal and other Fusions.  ------------- "If you're happy to be an Ant in the Sand Box, you're welcome to it!" -Forbidden For Progressive Metal and Prog Rock, come visit, request songs and explore at PrOgulus.com |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2010 at 7:19am
Oh damn we�re missing Vai? Of course he should be included. For now just to get him here fast I suggest putting him in tradional metal. Some of his albums should probably be tagged avant garde though. I�m not much of a fan of creating more subs but I actually see the point about an instrumental/ shredder sub. There are a substantial number of artists ( with a different sound, but still shredders) that would be really cool to have in the same place. Just to mention a few Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Yngwie, Paul Gilbert...etc. Until a sub like that might be created sometime in the future I think traditional heavy metal is the place for most of them.------------- http://www.lyngby-boldklub.dk/" rel="nofollow - Forever TRUE - Forever BLUE! https://rateyourmusic.com/~UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR on RYM |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2010 at 8:04am
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Flexable should probably be Avant-garde...the rest are instrumental metal and we should probably wait until we have an appropriate genre.\
I would actually advocate putting the shredders in with tech metal. I would happily join that team as I lived that scene for quite awhile. ------------- We're gonna do a little number featuring Randy Rhoads... Wine is fine but whisky's quicker. That's what Rock n' Roll's About!!!! |
Posted By: Harry
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2010 at 8:41am
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I don't really like this whole "Shredders" genre, simply because so much of it isn't even metal. Shred and metal aren't always tied together. Personally I've never seen Vai as a metal guitarist in his solos works. He still plays metal sometimes, but since Passion and Warfare when he got out of playing those 80s glam-type metal bands I feel he has really been a rock guitarist who dabbles in metal sometimes, not an artist that is metal artist at the core ------------- 
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Posted By: 1967/ 1976
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2010 at 8:48am
Vai's correct genre? Probably Various Heavy Metal genre is the best vai music's place!!!   -------------
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Posted By: The T 666
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2010 at 10:51am
I agree with this. I've never seen him as a metal guitarist. He's a rock guitarist with metal influences here and there. Shredding =/= metal. It's an important characteristic of metal (of some genres in particular) but just like tremolo-picking is not exclusive of black metal (not AT ALL), and distorted guitars are not exclusive of metal, so is shredding not exclusive of metal. ------------- 
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Harry wrote:Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2010 at 1:53pm
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Satriani is closer to the claims you're making, but Vai has done much heavier riffs and I think has earned his place.
Most shred is pretty metal, though I agree not all. ------------- We're gonna do a little number featuring Randy Rhoads... Wine is fine but whisky's quicker. That's what Rock n' Roll's About!!!! |
Posted By: MAVIIIVAM
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2010 at 1:53pm
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Hmmm . . . It begs the Question, would they be Rock? Jazz? Fusion? I would wonder what Jazz and Fusion guys would think of long haired "Shredders" on stage, would they be annoyed that theyre making nothing but noize! Well I'm not asking Al DiMeola or Eric Johnson to be here. Anyways, I get the jist that alot of these guys will be saved for later. ------------- "If you're happy to be an Ant in the Sand Box, you're welcome to it!" -Forbidden For Progressive Metal and Prog Rock, come visit, request songs and explore at PrOgulus.com |
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 4:22am
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I have no problem with Vai being included here - nor with Satriani's inclusion - because they are part of the metal world, and they've always been associated with the metal world in the media etc. As to the genre, I don't know. They don't seem to fit into any of the existing genres, and I'm sure a "metal related" genre will never be introduced ;-) The closest fits I can see are progressive metal, avant-garde metal or - controversially :-P - trad metal. ------------- 
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Posted By: MAVIIIVAM
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 4:38am
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At the Prog station I listen to, Vai and other shredders (Or "Solo
Guitarists") are considered Prog or Prog Metal as well. No harm
no foul I hope
------------- "If you're happy to be an Ant in the Sand Box, you're welcome to it!" -Forbidden For Progressive Metal and Prog Rock, come visit, request songs and explore at PrOgulus.com |
Posted By: Stephen
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 6:27am
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I think Vai and Satriani and most shredders should belong here, but the question of what genre is pretty hard, but the least I can think of is probably trad HM |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 7:27am
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I think they belong here, and are part of the metal world. Their playing is definitely not blues based, and furthermore their playing influenced many many metal guitarists. Not that every influence has to be here but....
I would vote Trad HM for now. ------------- We're gonna do a little number featuring Randy Rhoads... Wine is fine but whisky's quicker. That's what Rock n' Roll's About!!!! |
Posted By: Stephen
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 9:25am
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this axeman topic raised another interesting question should SLASH as solo artist be added ? i just pick up his new solo CD and saw many names performing as singer including some metal names, now if we want to add him, should we put him under Glam or Alternative Metal or ? |
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 9:27am
I think Slash belongs here. Don't know about the genre though. Maybe glam will do for now, and then a move to a more fitting genre later on. -------------
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 9:37am
| I don't want to stifle discussion, but remember just one thing: if there is any controversy attached to any of those suggestions, they will be put on ice for now. The last thing we need now, in the early days of the site, is for people to become members just to say, "WTF? Why is X here?". This happens just about every day on PA, and very often creates tension and ugliness. We don't need this as we are trying to create our niche in the Internet world. |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 9:49am
I agree with Jonas here. I would love to see a shred metal genre here, but until then I believe that they should go in traditional heavy metal. I can represent the trad. heavy metal team on this one, so anyone can feel free to add Steve Vai into this subgenre.  ------------- Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 10:12am
On the other hand, if we're trying to represent as a viable archive, we have to include the big artists. Clearly if Appetite for Destruction was not here, it's hard to call yourself a metal archive.
Steve Vai obviously isn't in that category, but I think there is a sense of "WTF? Why ISN"T he here?"
Again, I won't add an artist to another's team's genre, but I think the borderline cases are the jazzy guys like Eric Johnson (who is still metal-related) who are part of the shred scene but probably don't belong here. ------------- We're gonna do a little number featuring Randy Rhoads... Wine is fine but whisky's quicker. That's what Rock n' Roll's About!!!! |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 10:17am
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You are the experts, while I know very little about those artists. Remember that my position is NOT motivated by any personal reasons, but only by the good of the site. If you know me at all from the PA days, you'll know that I tend to be inclusive rather than exclusive. However, I've seen the damage done by an unclear addition policy, and I'll stop at that. Anyway, as regards not calling us a metal archive without Appetite for Destruction, Encyclopedia Metallum does not list Guns'n'Roses, nor any bands that might qualify as Glam/Hair/Street, or whatever you want to call them. And yet, there are people here who hold up that site as the ultimate metal resource. |
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 10:24am
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I agree with Negoba, and, as I've pointed out elsewhere, leaving certain stuff out may be just as controversial as including certain stuff. It's just a matter of choosing an exclusivist strategy over an inclusivist one - they both carry potential controversies. I, for one, would be happy to see both Steve Vai and Joe Satriani (and Slash) here - but I am also generally more prone to thinking "WTF? Why isn't X here?" than "WTF? Why is X here?". Anyway, it's somewhat of a comfort that the chosen exclusivist strategy is only intented to be a temporary one, and I am hopeful that many of the artists we've discussed - including Steve Vai - will be added some day in the near future. BTW, I am actually sceptical towards the Encyclopaedia Metallum for its exclusivist - dare I say elitist - approach, so I don't consider it the ultimate metal resource. It's a very extensive one, to be sure, but not the ultimate one. -------------
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 10:31am
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I agree with you 100% about the Encyclopedia Metallum. I don't like it, and don't consider it to be complete in the least. However, I am an admin here, and was one on PA some years ago - so I know what it means to have to constantly put out the fires due to controversial additions. And let's not forget that it is the very owner and founder of this site that would rather see those 'floodgates' closed, at least for the time being. He has invested time and money in the creation of this site, and obviously he is none too keen to see it go under for lack of a clear direction in its early days. |
Posted By: 1967/ 1976
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 10:49am
I quote this post because this is also my opinion and position. I consider G'n'R a hard rock band as all the bands of Glam and Street. They are, however, part of Metal World and see them here I do not care. However, a few days ago, I promoted Suzi Quatro, artist that I adore. Is she Metal? More than many Glam and Street bands and she certainly has too balls respect many male colleagues. May one day become part of MMA... That day I should enjoy as a bull in heat. Not today. PA errors were essentially the Prog Related category which ultimately lead in PA bands bands that haven't nothing to do with PA (and what about Post Rock, Post Metal, etc.?) So it is finished to satisfy all break PA toy. I went away disgusted by PA because of this (which made me hate Prog...) and when I saw the M@x email that was promoting MMA... Here I am!!! I don't want MMA to become a clone of PA. Please. -------------
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 11:07am
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It would be interesting to have mailto:M@x - M@x weigh in on this.
I'm finding it interesting that I seem to be against the momentum on both sites. I think PA should exclude more, and here I tend to be on the side of inclusion.
------------- We're gonna do a little number featuring Randy Rhoads... Wine is fine but whisky's quicker. That's what Rock n' Roll's About!!!! |
Posted By: MAVIIIVAM
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 5:07pm
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Please understand, I am in no way trying to start a fight, I have many points I'd like to "debate" but it will serve no purpose in the particular discussion here. I'll retract my idea for a "Shredder" sub-catagory, because people have a problem with it as a "Genre" (Term, title, definition etc.), and seeing a great example like "Slash" and his solo album definately is a way to look at the Solo Guitarists, not all are Progressive, some are 8 Bar Blues based, some are Jazz/Fusion based and then everything else. But I'm an "Ear" guy, I play Guitar by ear, I can't read Music or even Tabliture, I'm Improvisational, but I'm Metal Based, even when I play Jazz fusion, and I am FAR away from 8 Bar Blues and Rock n' Roll (I'm not blessed with that "soul" in my fluidity in scales). Please think about and consider this: If you ADD to the sub-genre catagory Window on the Home Page... "Guitar Soloists", you will alieviate the question of SOOOOOO Many "Metal" -based Guitarists, In anyones Review or whomever writes the descriptions for each Artist, they will mention what "Type" of Metal they will play, what are the influences. I am not trying to start a dominoe effect of Sub-genre "suggestions", I did that with the so-called "Math Metal /Tech Thrash" and I understand the infantcy of this site, I succumb to the fact that they will go in respective Death, Thrash and Progressive Metal Catagories and the descriptions of each will be characterized by their "sub-genres" in them. We can agree to disagree to what "influences" and characteristics these Soloists base their brand of Metal. But I think we could all agree . . . they are Soloists, who do it their way, have respected musicians collab with them in writing or playing what has been written for them. All thats left when you strip it all away, is it Metal? And they are still Soloists. One last point (I really want to stay away from fighting and dont want to leave Steve Vai or anyone else out of what has potential to be the biggest source for Metal Information). I'll say that Prog Rock has more potentials for Bands that have different elements that make them "progress" within the Genre, even if its one extreme compared to another-for the most part I can see more folks enjoying the "variety" than not (I litteraly like it ALL, but thats me). Metal on the otherhand I feel has bigger gaps and one genre will be HATED amongst others (Prog does too, but Progression and various influences are what make Prog -"Prog"). If you had a Metal Festival of different sub-genres, what genre would have the most people leave to have a Lunch/Smoke break or go take a nap? To get wrapped up in what site needs to Exclude or Include is too subjective and to "Leave" a site when you have a PLEATHERA of other musics to enjoy and read about is a shame to your own limitations to learn about something new. I hate Glam, but there can be a Band I've forgotten about or learn of that has a great sound, I'm open to anything. If you guys elect "Prince" to be here, I'm not going to complain about it to where I want to leave this NEW site "in disgust". Be civil folks, be open minded and "research" your findings, or learn about these Artists that some of you, YOU are making decisions for. Dont be the "American Grammy's" type of judges that decide what "Metal" Band should nominated like opening a Phone Book and pointing at the 1st thing they see (Believe me, thats how its done, I know 2 people in the Recording Industry who know people on the Grammy committee). And by the way, I could really see this site "Helping" expand the Grammy Nominations in Metal (or maybe I'm dreaming) if this becomes a viable source for Information and there is enough publicity of some kind in the future. Dont be afraid of Genres, its what makes this Music (and Prog) better than anything else out there because its more than just noise, we know better. It is loud and aggressive, but has alot of Art, Heart and Soul. I may get angry, but I'll come back and still support its efforts here, theres a bigger "picture" than just my tastes. Again, I may not like a lot of Bands mentioned here and there, but that doesn't mean they are not part of the Heavy Metal community. Forgive me if I offended anyone, truely, I may use the wrong words but the point I hope will supercede my bad grammer (I mean, English is my 1st language  ).Bang on! ------------- "If you're happy to be an Ant in the Sand Box, you're welcome to it!" -Forbidden For Progressive Metal and Prog Rock, come visit, request songs and explore at PrOgulus.com |
Posted By: The T 666
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 5:31pm
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We have to create a site with a broad perspective but a realistic one. We have started being inclusive enough with bands like GN'R and Bon Jovi. We don't want to go to far and alienate the people we want to convert into our followers. Encyclopedia Metallum might not be your cup of tea, but as a metal head is still my main site to check METAL bands. It's a comprehensive archive that might be a little exclusive in their policies but that has become the main place to find about metal. Now, we're clearly not trying to be like them but to be something else, some place where reviews are very important and where we allow open minded discussions, and also where people can find info about all kind of bands. But we're first and foremost a metal site. People who go to a metal site want to find metal, not RHCP. Of course, I don't own this site. My opinion is only an extra one. But as far as I go, I'll stay on the side of exclusivity... for a while at least, until we have graduated and obtained a metal undergraduate degree.... then we can go for higher goals and start risking the site's credibility... -------------
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 6:06pm
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I know this my sound strange, but when Appetite for Destruction came out, no one anywhere would have argued against it being metal. I realize things change and we're looking for metal fans now, but prior to grunge, metal was even easier to define that it is now. And alot of the bands now considered borderline were clearly in.
------------- We're gonna do a little number featuring Randy Rhoads... Wine is fine but whisky's quicker. That's what Rock n' Roll's About!!!! |
Posted By: NJCat_11
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 6:56pm
Here's my breakdown on Steve Vai:
Flex-Able (1984) - Avant-garde metal
Flex-Able Leftovers (1984) - Avant-garde metal
Passion and Warfare (1990) - Instrumental metal
Sex & Religion (1993) - non-metal
Alien Love Secrets (1995) - Instrumental metal
Fire Garden (1996) - Instrumental metal
The Ultra Zone (1999) - Instrumental metal
Alive in an Ultra World (2001) - Instrumental metal
The Elusive Light and Sound, Vol. 1 (2002) - Instrumental metal
Real Illusions: Reflections (2005) - Instrumental metal
Sound Theories Vol. I & II (2007) - Instrumental metal / Symphonic metal
Where the Wild Things Are (2009) - Instrumental metal / Symphonic metal ------------- http://www.chess.com/members/view/NJCat?ref_id=1432587 - Come and play me at Chess.com http://www.youtube.com/user/NJCat?feature=mhw4 - Homepage |
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2010 at 6:48am
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Added - thank you for the suggestion. The discography will soon be imported from MMA and processed by a collab.
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