Testament: Great thrash or tinny dirge?
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URL: http://www.MetalMusicArchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=493
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Topic: Testament: Great thrash or tinny dirge?
Posted By: mosefus
Subject: Testament: Great thrash or tinny dirge?
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2010 at 8:55pm
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A bit of both if you ask me. You didn't, I know, but I'm spouting all the same. Suffering more than their peers, the Big Four in particular, from a thin production on occasion (though Megadeth have never done it for me due to the very thin production and McStain's reed like vocals) these guys nevertheless hammered out decent thrash back in the eighties, though were oft overlooked. Reimagining themselves in the nineties as aggro-thrash of sorts, I'm just looking to get a consensus. Were they ever any good, or just a bunch of flash, fret 'wonking' sons of guns? ------------- http://www.smellthecult.com http://www.smellthecult.blogspot.com Keep it metal and ye shall be wise |
Replies:
Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2010 at 9:11pm
| They released some good albums thoughout their career. Very consistent output, though I don't know if they have any "essential" recordings. Haven't put much thought into it. My favorite album of theirs is probably Low. I don't listen to them much these days, and I can't get into their latest album. I just haven't been into thrash metal in general lately. |
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2010 at 10:46pm
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I really like the material on the early albums, the first three of them that I own, but the production is indeed pretty bad. Particularly the drum levels, loud as hell and obscuring the guitars. Live In London is a quite good album, early material with better sound, and The Gathering has some absolute killer material. ------------- http://iamthreepeople.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow">  <- Click on this!
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Posted By: DeathOfSeasons
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2010 at 1:58pm
| I've never liked Testament. I haven't heard all of their albums but from what I have heard they sound pretty weak to me. |
Posted By: Phonebook Eater
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2010 at 2:29pm
TRASH!!!
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Posted By: MAVIIIVAM
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2010 at 5:30am
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Jesus . . . How old are you "Kids"  ?Come on, they were HUGE back in the day. the 1st 3 albums are classics, but put yourself back in that time. Not till "Obituary" did some figure out how to "mic" double bass drums to get the cuncussion out of them! Yes "Tinny" because Thrash was NEW and so was the engineering for it, who did they have to copy? These were among the 1st Thrashers to be more than fast, they were technical and were very good musicians. Like most of the originals, newer bands come along to "one-up" the previous bands and take the music to new hieghts, Production, Engineering and Technology finally catches up and even CRAPPY bands sound better (notice I say "sound" better). I give a lot of credit to them, Billy has gone through alot himself, almost dieing, having a Benifit Concert/ Metal Fest for him, that doubled for Schuldiner (The 2 "Chucks"), Alex Skolnick leaving to persue his Fusion/Prog needs for creativity, the Band breaking up, reforming . . . and still at it. I can think of a TON of Bands that are doing it for "Lifestyle Maintenance" or just sounding as shitty as ever. I do believe these guys are doing it for the Love of it. I dont think they were really "Aggro", because they always did solos (if I'm not mistaken), a bit more technical, and Chuck made the change to "sing" cookie vocals because it was the time and probably easier to sing that way (as he gets older). These among many others I need to get their catalogue, I think they are among the greats and many wouldnt be here if it wasnt for the "Big 20". Its just my opinion though  .------------- "If you're happy to be an Ant in the Sand Box, you're welcome to it!" -Forbidden For Progressive Metal and Prog Rock, come visit, request songs and explore at PrOgulus.com |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2010 at 6:03am
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I loved the debut and the second album is pretty good too, but none of their output is anywhere near as interested as the best output by Slayer, Metallica and Megadeth IMO. ------------- http://www.lyngby-boldklub.dk/" rel="nofollow - Forever TRUE - Forever BLUE! https://rateyourmusic.com/~UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR on RYM |
Posted By: FusionKing
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2010 at 3:54pm
| Still exploring the realms of Testament for now... but from what I've heard, thier older stuff is better. As for production, it's not something I care much about, it's the songs that matter to me. |
Posted By: Harry
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2010 at 3:07am
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Testament is just awesome IMO. WAY better than Metallica when I average out their albums, and they had some serious muscle muscle with guys like Alex Skolnick in the band. Kirk Hammett may as well throw his guitars in the bin if he jammed with Skolnick ------------- 
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Posted By: NecronCommander
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2010 at 11:11am
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Testament, IMO, was the truest thrash metal band to have ever been formed. Although they did do some stuff with death metal, they never really strayed from their thrash roots, and I respect that a lot *coughmetallicacough*. The only problem with Testament was that they were never really extraordinary to begin with. They were consistent all across the board, yes, but to that extent, a lot of their music was just sorta... meh. Good, but not great. Their standoff moments were few and far between, unlike their contemporaries Megadeth and still-then-thrash-Metallica, who had hit after hit with their discography. Granted, Testament still has their moments. The Formation of Damnation is one of my favorite thrash metal albums, and albums like The Gathering and Practice What You Preach are both excellent as well. |
Posted By: The T 666
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2010 at 5:43pm
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I would never put Testament above any of the Big Four except Anthrax, which I find extremely weak. Slayer's best moments crush Testament's, and that multiplied by 100 with Megadeth and 1000 with Metallica. Even their best songs are just good thrash songs, only three or four are really little masterpieces ("Over the Wall") ------------- 
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Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2010 at 4:10pm
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I think Testament have released some great albums. I don't know if I think that their production sucks, but "First Strike Still Deadly" does show what a difference the up-to-date production technology can make. ------------- 
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Posted By: mosefus
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2010 at 10:29am
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The consensus seems to be that, whilst most of their output is good, little of it isa great, and I would tend to go along with that, though stuff like Dog Faced Gods rips it up with the best of them. ------------- http://www.smellthecult.com http://www.smellthecult.blogspot.com Keep it metal and ye shall be wise |
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2010 at 10:56am
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I actually think that a lot of their stuff is great ;-)
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2010 at 8:22am
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It's kinda telling that, so far, no-one has cited individual songs of excellence...
This isn't to say that Testament didn't release any decent moshing material, it's just that none of it is particularly memorable or otherwise outstanding.
I MUCH preferred Testament to Death Angel, Flotsam and Jetsam and the other "lower-grade" bands - they were more a kind of halfway house, like Dark Angel or Kreator - who were both somewhat better than Testament, but not really up with the big boys, like Tankard, Sacred Reich, Helloween, Death or Anthrax...
Anthrax shouldn't really be included in the "Big 4" in my humble opinion, as their first album sucked, and it was only "Spreading The Disease" and "Among The Living" which were any good. Of course, Anthrax were Metallica's support act on the MoP tour in 1986, and it couldn't have been the other way around, even given that Jaymez broke his arm.
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Posted By: alberto mu�oz
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2010 at 9:28am
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The first album that i hear was The Legacy, and it's an excellent album, then i forward only to found that is one of the most brilliant bands that have rise in the metal wave of the 80's , unfortunately eclipsed by the "Big Four" |
Posted By: mosefus
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2010 at 5:53pm
I did name check Dog Faced Gods but you are quite right, it is tough to remember many more of their tunes. Maybe Curse of the Legion of Death from the 1st album would also stand up to scrutiny. ------------- http://www.smellthecult.com http://www.smellthecult.blogspot.com Keep it metal and ye shall be wise |
Certif1ed wrote:Posted By: MAVIIIVAM
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2010 at 12:50am
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Okay, Fave songs in "order of appearence": The Legacy- Over the Wall (tell tale sign that a Band will be really good if the opener is a WIN). The Haunting (The main riff that builds and begins to harmonize, awesome song). Raging Waters (great riffage and I love that many Thrash Bands are facinated by "The Devils Triangle"). COTLOD (at the time, "one of" the most aggressive songs I ever heard). Those are the memorable ones but I enjoy the entire album. The New Order- Eerie Inhabitance (Again, a great opener). The New Order (probably my fave on this one, very catchy). Trial by Fire (another catchy HEAVY but not Thrashy song). Into the Pit (made for slamming and moshing! Should be an Anthem!). Disciples of the Watch (hmmm, maybe this is a fave too, HEAVY and aggressive). A Day of Reckoning (again, all the guys showing their chops, technicality and speed). Musical Death (a Dirge) (Beautiful piece featuring Alex and Eric on guitars). Another solid album too. Practice what you Preach- Practice what you Preach (gotta' know how to open your albums, apparently they do and the lyrics to this song ALWAYS comes to mind when this "situation" occurs, seems some folks should heed this . . . hint hint). Perilous Nation (Testament getting more topical, which is why I like Thrash of this kind, and the music solid). Time is Coming (again, lyrics I can relate to, and a period when Thrash had something to say). Blessed in Contempt (another HEAVY dose of something to think about and awesome riffage). Greenhouse Effect (topical, and maybe ahead of thier time with a handful of other bands, set to heavy music to rally with). Sins of Omission (good words along with heavy tones, get your aggressions out but not to be self destructive). The Ballad (just what it says on the package, I think Chuck does a real good job trying out a Ballad with some really great melodies). Confusion Fusion (Alex shows off "whats to come" in his future, all hands sans Billy do a serious Instrumental workover). Souls of Black- Beginning of the End (This Intro is quite beautiful with a Middle Eastern or "Turkish" feel to it). Face in the Sky (We are starting to hear a Testament staying heavy but "slowing down" but still writing decent songs. I like the riffs on this one, very catchy). Souls of Black (I love the Groove of this title track). Absence of Light (a real good headbanging song). Love to Hate (I remember that this is the one that had the most memorable "Faster" riffs on the album and liked its structure, as usual, very groove driven). Malpractice (the Riffs get a bit technical on this one, more headbanging fun!). One Mans Fate (again, a bit technical at the beginning...). I dont remember the last 2 (or 3) songs. The Ritual- I was VERY dissapointed with this album, this is when I started to lose interest, though it was curious again with "Demonic" because they were getting heavier, and that got me to listen to "Low". I never bought those 2 and my love for Prog and the many sub-genres of "Prog Metal" then took over my collection for awhile. Though all those songs above are from my memory only, most of my CD's including Thrash albums are in the Garage in boxes because I'm in a temporary living situation  so I dontget to enjoy my collection as I used to. So I didnt "cheat" and go through a "Quicky Review" .I know we are here to express ourselves, that heavy metallers have strong "opinions", but I think we all have to be careful what to "assume" and remember that "One mans meat is anothers poison". I can think of, litterally a hundred "Lower Grade" Thrash bands other than Death Angel and Flotsam & Jetsam. As a matter of fact, for me, other than the 1st F&J album, I have liked just about every album and song from them, I think they are SUPER underated, their 2nd "No Place for Discrace" thru "Drift" are my particulr faves, I have only not heard their latest album. "Doomsday for the Deceiver" was to me, just getting a feel for what they could do at the time. The Guitars had no theory by way of Solos (lots of noodley solos), interesting riffs and Lyrics by Newsted that needed maturing. I would have loved to see what Newsted would have "become" with his writing of "No Place for Discrace" if he had stayed, because that album was a shock how awesome (Troy Gregory joins the band at this time) Michael Gilbert had become on Guitar. Anthrax, the 1st one was what made me a fan, it was the 1st time hearing them when that album was released and "Deathrider", "Death from Above", "Panic" and "Across the River" were my faves on this album, and was one of the heaviest bands at that time (again "from that time"). Anthrax is recognized to many (Critics and Armchair critics alike) to be one of the quintessential pioneers of the genre, and Ian and Dan were featured in many "Guitar Magazines" for their abilities and musical prowess (This before these Mags, unfortunately started to feature "popular" Bands guitarists on their covers to sell more mags, as it spread like a disease . . . pun intended). My following stopped when Belladonna left (or was it fired?), then Dan Spitz left, and the music became too basic. It wasnt Anthrax anymore for me, and I like John Bush, but only in Armoured Saint (vocalist). I'd meet folks that didnt like Belladonna's voice  "He sings like he's in Journey",some folks just think inside a box I guess. By the way, "Of course, Anthrax were Metallica's support act on the MoP tour in 1986, and it couldn't have been the other way around, even given that Jaymez broke his arm." ...depends who you ask .The rivalry was just as strong with Megadeth vs Metallica Fans, thats what I remember around these parts anyway. Anthrax used to give the boys in Metallica a place to stay in NY when they 1st toured. If some of us dont, at-least they respect each other. "I MUCH preferred Testament to Death Angel, Flotsam and Jetsam and the other "lower-grade" bands - they were more a kind of halfway house, like Dark Angel or Kreator - who were both somewhat better than Testament, but not really up with the big boys, like Tankard, Sacred Reich, Helloween, Death or Anthrax..." Again, depends where you are I guess. Tankard certainly was not one of the "Big Boys" here in Ca. and maybe in the US. I did not know very many people who knew who they were. I knew folks (not me) that thought Helloween were annoying and Sacred Riech not fast enough. Now Kreator, they had legions of fans and I'm one of them. But my fave era was for "Extreme Aggressions" and "Coma of Souls" because they got out of the "Speed Metal" idea of just playing fast . . . now they were getting fast , brutal, but technical (I can easily name all the songs I LOVE as well and why ).Tastes run different in the Bay Area (Calif.), the Mid-west, South and East coast, so imagine what its like in Europe and South America . . . ------------- "If you're happy to be an Ant in the Sand Box, you're welcome to it!" -Forbidden For Progressive Metal and Prog Rock, come visit, request songs and explore at PrOgulus.com |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: 03 May 2010 at 6:26pm
Indeed - and I was not attempting to list them all, merely put some sort of perspective in place - and I think my assumptions were logical, and the opinions easy to reason out.
I thought the first album was awful, derivative and showed little if no potential, so felt F&J pretty safe to ignore, as there were so many better ones around back then.
I'll check out the later albums - I just didn't feel at the time that they deserved another chance, following the initial turkey - but as you say, we each have our own opinions.
They were, indeed, there at "the beginning" (which I recall well), and pioneers of the music, which I'm not denying.
I didn't like FFoM at the time, and when I listen to it now, it's simply not at the same consistent level of quality as Metallica's or Megadeth's debuts - or even Slayer's, despite their awful production, and nor are any of the albums Anthrax put out, with the possible exception of Spreading the Disease.
Anthrax had a few exceptional moments, while the other 3 of the so-called Big 4 grew and grew into monsters with exceptional albums - the stories and musical development are very different, even though the bands are inter-related.
Naturally... to both.
They had some pretty fast songs... without directly measuring the tempo, I'd say they were up with the rest - although it's true they had some slower numbers. Mind you, so did Metallica and Anthrax - depends what you were listening to the music for. Can't say I could survive on a diet of Napalm Death though
Extreme Aggression is a fantastic album - the title track just kicks ass on every level, but yes, Kreator got a bit samey after a while.
As a quasi-European, I don't find that part too hard to imagine...
It's cool that someone can name stand-out tracks from Testament - I can't even name the albums I own, which are the first two (and I did listen to them when I bought them!). I could use Google and pretend I have an encyclopediac knowledge - but I don't see the point.
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Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 03 May 2010 at 6:46pm
It's true that "The American Way" and, later "Independent" are not that fast. I mean, the latter isn't even really a thrash album. But "Ingorance" have some very fast stuff on it, so those people must have been craving for something like grindcore to emerge :-) -------------
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: 04 May 2010 at 4:25pm
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I discovered them with 'souls of black' and I was immediately hooked by their music. Recently, I listened to 'the legacy' which is killer thrash. Chuck Billy is one of the best vocalist in the thrash circles. In the later albums, he also "growls" but honestly I think it spoils the songs. And Alex Skolnick proved with Attention Deficit and Michael Manring he is a first class guitarist, on a par with the underappreciated Coroner's Tommy Vetterli. |
Posted By: MAVIIIVAM
Date Posted: 04 May 2010 at 4:45pm
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RAISES HAND!!!! Also a Coroner, Attention Deficit and Michael Mannring ("Thonk" with Steve Morse doing some awesome colaborations with Michael too!) Fan!  Coroners "No more colour" is a must for any Thrash fan. Hey Certif1ed! Thanks for the reply! Kreator/Petrozza has made 2 of my fave guitar solos in Thrash (perhaps in the Top 10): 1. Betrayer (Extreme Aggressions) 2. When the Sun burns Red (Coma of Souls) And gosh, if you havent heard the Flotsam & Jetsam albums after "Doomsday", its like they all went to "Thrash School" and graduated with honours !Try out: "No place for discrace", "When the Storm comes down" and "Quatro". I think those are the strongest but . . . I dont want to oversell them  .------------- "If you're happy to be an Ant in the Sand Box, you're welcome to it!" -Forbidden For Progressive Metal and Prog Rock, come visit, request songs and explore at PrOgulus.com |
Posted By: LittleBig
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2010 at 4:23pm
| It's great thrash to me, it's one of my favourite metal bands; their first 5 albums are great to me (although Practice What You preach is the weakest out the first 5, but Skolnick still saves the album). Demonic and The Gathering are my least favourite, it's too "death metal" for me as I can hardly tolerate growls these days. |
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2010 at 10:27am
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I'm not a big fan of "Demonic" wither - it's not so much because of the growling though.
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Posted By: The Angry Scotsman
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2010 at 12:37am
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I like Testament. Don't like all of their stuff, but that is the case with a lot of bands, but they are some awesome old thrash. The Legacy, The New Order, and the Gathering are great! |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2010 at 3:22am
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^That would be the 3 albums I would mention as highlights too. ------------- http://www.lyngby-boldklub.dk/" rel="nofollow - Forever TRUE - Forever BLUE! https://rateyourmusic.com/~UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR on RYM |
Posted By: LittleBig
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2010 at 12:00pm
| ^ Why the little appreciation for Souls of Black? I for one thought it was great. What's wrong with it? |
Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2010 at 2:49pm
| I keep jumping around when it comes to determining what my favorite Testament album is. If I had to choose today, I'd probably say "The Ritual". Skolnick sounds amazing on that record. Some thrashy songs, some catchy/radio-friendly songs, a good variety. |
Posted By: vmoore
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 1:07pm
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testament is my 3rd favorite band
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Posted By: Kingcrimsonprog
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 1:40pm
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Testament are great. I dont really have anything further to add. -------------  My Blog: http://kingcrimsonprog.wordpress.com/ |
Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 9:30pm
What was I thinking when I said that??? I must have been on a big Return To Serenity kick.  There's still a good variety on the album, but I think their mainstream-ish songs are far better than the thrashier ones. I can't think of which is my favorite now. They're very consistent, but I'm honestly not sure if I'd rate one of them 5 out of 5. However, it's been too long since I've listened to The Gathering. I definitely need to buy a copy of that one. ------------- https://armchairmaestro.com/" rel="nofollow - My Music Blog |