metalheads... I want your thoughts
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URL: http://www.MetalMusicArchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=88
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Topic: metalheads... I want your thoughts
Posted By: micky
Subject: metalheads... I want your thoughts
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 7:46am
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as we get people into the site from the outer reaches of the internet after the initial land rush of posters from PA's have claimed all the prized land and hot women and set ourselves up as sheriffs and magistrates ahhah for the pure metalheads out there.... what are your thoughts on prog rock.... even prog metal. are there any out there that believe metal is tits and ass, good times music.. dark 'dangerous' music with satanic (real or pseudo) musings.. if so.... how does attempts to intellectualize music sit with you. |
Replies:
Posted By: Colt
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 8:21am
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I was "lucky" enough to have experienced both prog rock and metal in their infancy.
I still listen to both (far too much my missus would say!) and maybe understandably, I prefer Prog Metal over most other musical forms.
Having said that I'm more of a traditionalist and therefore steers clear of the ultra extreme acts.
Do you think it will be more of an age thing? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/colt2112" rel="nofollow - http://www.last.fm/user/colt2112 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 9:15am
I do....at the cost of having been often accused of being a bit too much condescending when I make such generalizations  I just think that younger listeners relate to... or simply understand that extreme sh*t. I just think it sounds like f**king noise hahah. I've always been about melody and much like prog... enjoy metal most when attention is made to not shock/impress the listener... but catch the listener in a web of interesting music of which melody.... even in metal.. is so important. I have often thought it .. not skills or virtuosity.. is what makes music so great. It's when music 'grabs' you and won't let go.. that again is why I think it is a age thing.. if melody is what grabs me.. and others who grew up listening to absolute kings of melody.. the Beatles.. who is to say that rage and noise doesn't 'grab' others who might not have been exposed to such an emphasis on melody and the craft of songwriting. I suppose I'm just old enough to have seen real rage in the world. and don't need it in music as well. Not when it often an 'act'... take the rage of hard core rap.. for the most part.. that is REAL. Not originally some ploy to sell records or be put into a musical nitche they enjoy playing.. but a real reflection of the lives they know made for those who live a life where they are targeted simply because of the color of their skin. |
Colt wrote:Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 9:19am
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Well it�s been kind of different for me actually. I started out listening to the usual suspects like Iron Maiden and Metallica and then moved on to the more extreme stuff. Then I had a period where I found progressive metal and later power metal really interesting and now as I�ve growned older I�ve returned to extreme metal. Ususally the more extreme and aggressive the better. So no it�s not an age thing for me. ------------- http://www.lyngby-boldklub.dk/" rel="nofollow - Forever TRUE - Forever BLUE! https://rateyourmusic.com/~UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR on RYM |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 9:23am
it's all about personal taste for the individual and really nothing matters past that.. however if talking generalizations.. the larger listening audience...there probably (obviously in my mind) is an age component to it. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 10:56am
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Prog -- to be honest, I'd rather not even hear that word here (at least for now), Progressive metal is kind of a pseudo-intellectual b*****dization of pure metal. Give me balls to the wall metal that appeals to my baser instincts and none of that aerie faerie crock rock nonsense. -brootaLogan -------------  - -brutalogan
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 11:18am
BREAKING THE LAW, BREAKING THE LAW !!!!
An increadibly br00taw line from Judas Priest. -------------   
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Posted By: dean
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 11:31am
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I don't think it's an age thing in so much that it is an attitude thing. I'm rapidly approaching 53 and love extreme metal far more than I do extreme (avant) prog, in much the same way I prefer extreme Classical more than extreme Jazz ...
There is something more honest and tangible about pushing the limits of noise (for want of a better word) so that it becomes musical than pushing the limits of music so that it becomes noise....
the want of a better word - noise is the dissonance of sound that comes from taking something to the extreme of what could be considered melodic so that it becomes melodic by another process - for example there is a subsonic rhythmic pulse in blastbeats and trem-picking that cannot be achieved by any other means, whereas randomly plonking on a xylophone creates no discernible undertones, resonances or rhythms and is simply "noise" (and can be achieved just as easily by falling downstairs while carrying the instrument as by playing it).
That modulation between rhythmic motifs creates a slow melody of sorts that you feel more than hear - a few minutes at an extreme metal concert will demostrate this a lot easier than I can explain it in words and explains why you have to listen to it at high volumes. Of course with increased loudness it can be achieved with any music - try playing Tubular Bells or Hergest Ridge very (very) loud and feel the music rather than listen to it - the dimensional shift is quite startling once you recognise it is there - the same thing happens with extreme metal - the melody is there, it's just different (I wouldn't recomend that with Yes though - the higher freqencies of Howe's guitar just become painful when played too loud).
Of course metal can be (and is) melodic, for example there is a thin line between Symphonic Metal and Symphonic Rock that infers that some melodic metal (regardless of actual subgenre) can be just as uninspired and bland as the worse excesses (n�e laziness) of any other pseudo-classical rock form.
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 1:52am
And some people like noise! It's a whole subgenre of music.
My whole childhood my mom listened to '60s pop/rock on the radio in the car, and my favorite movie was Fantasia, soooo....Where did I go wrong? I don't listen to non-prog metal so I don't have any thoughts on the topic. ------------- 
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Posted By: Balthamel
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 2:58am
| I think the midle section on Dancing With the Moonlit of Night to be sort of heavy metal the guitar riff would not sound off on an Iron Maidon song |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 7:32am
great post... and of course you are spot on.  |
Posted By: Balthamel
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 8:37am
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I sugest Lamb of God, they are EXTREME but they are so god produced that they become rather easy listening and they compose good guitar melodies. and the vocalist/growler/schriker has an incredible range, I dont say they are easy to dygest if you havent gone past the heavynes off Metalica, Pantera or Slayer, but Lamb of God is sort of the next stepp in the Evolution line, i will recomand the song Walk with me in Hell that song have some epic flawor that is related to prog and the guitar is verry melodic, yet disconant. but I would recomand to listen to Metallica first then some Pantera/Slayer and then Lamb of God is the next logical step and then Gojira who are french and are enviromentalists and vegitarrian, actually the fdrummer in Lamb of God is Vegan |
Posted By: FusionKing
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 12:19pm
I disagree, I am but one of a reasonable number of young (16- 26) people who are purely traditionalist in terms of metal music. The most extreme genre that I'm willing to recognise as 'true' metal is Thrash. Once you get heavier than that, I feel it destroys the real artistry behind metal whereupon everyone sees it as noise as opposed to just rock in a raw and high powered format. It saddens me to see a lack of interest in old greats like Saxon, Ozzy and Van Halen in the rest of young listeners because this was the metal that made me feel empowered and took me on a journey through all rock music. Many extreme metal fans I've met often appear closed minded (obviously not all of you, plenty great guys on PA were into it) Often it is as if the harshness of the music matters more than how musical it actually is. I just don't get it. 
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 6:01pm
How do you define "musical"? Why is being "musical" the most important attribute of music? -------------
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Posted By: FusionKing
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 12:14pm
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Well, it's all in the name 'music', isn't it? I don't see the the point in all the morbid vocals and crunching guitar in newer metal. Why do that when traditional metal has the ability to soar high and low and make the hair on the back of listeners necks stand on end? I mean, ask yourself this... Korn or Metallica? Cradle Of Filth or Iron Maiden? I know who I'd go for if I were stuck on a deserted island with nothing but a record player and two albums... |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 12:36pm
What? Does not compute!
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Posted By: MrEdifus
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 7:33pm
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Most metal fans who possess some measure of intelligence (and aren't just OMG MUST BE BR00TAL all the time) at least respect progressive rock, for what I have seen. Their deviation from the mainstream and technical ability are something that a metal fan could respect. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 8:32pm
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2010 at 11:17pm
I'm not alone! I always wanted to hear Dancing with the Moonlit Knight as a metal song!
Anyways, prog totally sucks, I hate it.
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2010 at 11:26pm
What's wrong with noise? Merzbow rocks and the album in Henry's sig is incredible! |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 6:51am
Then, if I may ask, what are you doing on a metal forum  ? |
Posted By: Colt
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 7:48am
I think you know the answer to that question already Raff!  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/colt2112" rel="nofollow - http://www.last.fm/user/colt2112
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 7:57am
I do indeed !
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 7:25pm
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2010 at 4:43pm
Today I learned that hard rock is not metal according to some of our beloved forum members
That says a lot about the idea youngsters make of a metal band...
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2010 at 4:47pm
| Guys, this thread was started as a serious discussion, and any kind of sniping is completely out of place. Lucas, if you have anything to say to any of our members, please tell them directly, or by PM - don't undermine their judgment in a thread which they may well not visit. |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2010 at 4:57pm
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^
Well, in order to stay on the topic, let's say that you will find a lot to like as well as a lot to dislike in EVERY genre. However, I tend to think that there are much more useless and cliched bands in the prog-metal genres than in others (besides the pioneers that are Queensryche, Fates Warning or Dream theater).
Therefore I can appreciate every kind of metal.
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Posted By: Matt
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2010 at 5:08pm
Metal has changed and lucky it has or we would all be bored to death and not listening to it. A lot here complain that extreme is not for them anf fair enough but as what drives all forms of modern contempary music is the youngies. They are full of beans and they want to go where no man has gone before.( Star Trek). So they have gone extreme and created new music ( Noise if you prefer ). One thing that I really like are the rythmns ( Check me Av) . Sepultura with Roots is one hell of an example. My son plays Thrash and Nu and so if I want to know anything I ask him.
The extreme Metal will be around for good now and the majority of Metal Heads I know are right into it.They are all approaching 30 and still love it.
Aren't the blokes from Meshuggah nearly 40 years old  ------------- Matt |
Posted By: Harry
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2010 at 10:28pm
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Thoughts on prog rock? Well I dig jazz fusion, The Mars Volta, and Pink Floyd kicks serious ass IMO. As for metal, not everyone listens to it for the same reasons, but that's obvious I guess. I don't listen to the heavier side of metal because I want to be the most extreme badass dude on the block. A lot of the stuff I listen to is because it just grooves. Doesn't even matter if it doesn't sound particularly melodic to other people's ears, to me there is just something about metal with heavy amounts of groove. Pretty much the reason why I listen to Meshuggah, particular their last few albums. What sounds like a bunch of dissonant, screwed up rhythmic stuff that makes no sense to some people is totally grooving stuff to me. Or the breakdown in the song "Swim To the Moon" off Between the Buried and Me's last album The Great Misdirect. What might sound like a lot of dissonant, somewhat sludgy noise to some people is the stuff that makes me bob my head back and forward. Another guy brought up Korn on the previous page. They are more melodic than they get credit for and have immense funky grooves. I can't stand the vocalist , but some aspects of their music is pretty awesome. Of course I don't sit there all day and listen to stuff with groove either, I like some straight rhythmic stuff, but there is just something about groove metal, no matter if it's the "lighter" side like Pantera or the more intense stuff like Meshuggah that just really connects with me |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2010 at 12:06am
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*bump* I don't know if I can call myself a 'pure metalhead' because at the time of writing this, I like prog rock more and that's how it's been for some time now but there was a time not so long ago when I couldn't be so sure where my preferences lay. I certainly like prog rock much, much more than prog metal and that has been the case from the beginning. There is a certain 'kick' that amazing metal music has for me, the uninhibited aggression and energy is something I like best in metal music than any other genre while prog rock is all about experimentation and nuanced emotions. Prog metal, especially the melodic side, is neither so exciting in terms of musical adventures for me nor as wild as 'pure metal'. The delivery is too conscious and calculated in prog metal for my liking. That being said, I like ACT's The Last Epic more than all but my favourite Sabbath and Judas Priest albums, so in the right hands, it is a sub genre with the potential to produce great music but, maybe it's me, but I haven't come across much of THAT so far in prog metal. By the way, other than Cert1fied, I don't know anybody else who calls ACT prog metal! As for extreme metal, I don't really have any problems with regarding it as music. What I do have a problem with is the excessive repetition and unjustified spawning of sub genres whose distinction from each other is suspect. As I like to say, The Who and Led Zeppelin are both hard rock bands but they are probably more unlike each other than a thrash metal band from a black metal band. From the beginning, this has been a problem for me with metal, that the tolerance for repetition (as also intolerant indignation expressed to those who point out the repetition) is quite high in metal circles, I mean both fans and musicians, and must be a factor in my gradually drifting towards prog rock. I'd really like that metal bands aspire more to express their own identity and individual musical vision rather than be content with living up to the identity of the sub genre, but sub genre 'pride' runs high in metal and it is difficult to disabuse the notion that as long as a band is *insert metal sub genre name*, it's all good. |
Posted By: cyclysm748
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 2:23am
Wow you bring up a lot of really interesting points. I like you was a metalhead first and foremost, and then kind of converted into the prog rock genre. I completely agree about the metal subgenre thing. Where I live the biggest thing is all kinds of core music, which to me is all indistinguishable which type of core it is, though I don't listen to it much if at all. I am definitely going to steal your who and zeppelin comparison to metal because it is awesome. Thank you.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 12:13pm
I guess they probably all play metalcore. I find metalcore, malcore and deathcore tend to converge. Hardcore is something quite different, as is grindcore. Yeah, it's all core here too and they are all indistinguishable. Brutal death metal has been like that for a long time, but because it's a 'pure metal' genre, it gets more sympathetic treatment.
As for the Who-LZ comparison, feel free but make sure you pick an audience that also has some interest in classic rock in that case, because for some hardcore (not to be confused with the genre) metalheads, it's all hard rock, it's all the same. |
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 12:26pm
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I don't believe in 'pure' metal or 'true' metal. Metal music has always been a bastard form of music, and it's always on the move taking in elements from other genres and forever developing new subgenres. That's one of the things I like about it - although it's hard to keep up with all the new subgenres. I love prog rock too, in most of its forms... I like good old fashioned rock music and a lot of other genres outside rock. ------------- 
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