'alternative' metal... discuss

I think of alternative metal as metal or metallish music which just doesn't fit into any of the established metal genres. Sometimes, a subgenre may be formed on the bases of common traits among artists which are otherwise considered alternative metal. I certainly consider it a viable genre on these pages.

lucas wrote: So basically : alternative metal = grunge (Soundgarden, AiC, Nirvana) + noise rock (Helmet, Sonic Youth) + alternative rock (Smashing Pumpkins, Jane's Addicion) + groove metal (King's X) + funk metal (FFF, fishbone, living colour, infectious grooves) I think that makes sense to have all these bands under one flag...

Edited by Sean Trane - 07 Apr 2010 at 7:12am

I basically agree that some people (or make it many) are obsessed with categorization, and often end up not seeing the forest for the trees. However, let's remember that categorization is necessary as a reference when the amount of material available is quite vast. No one would ever conceive of a library without any form of categorization - finding books would become impossible. 

Time Signature wrote: Raff wrote: I basically agree that some people (or make it many) are obsessed with categorization, and often end up not seeing the forest for the trees. However, let's remember that categorization is necessary as a reference when the amount of material available is quite vast. No one would ever conceive of a library without any form of categorization - finding books would become impossible.  Not just that - cognitive scientists have shown that categorization is a very basic human cognitive process. I wonder what they could learm from the study of metal subgenres ;-)

they'd find that the study of metal subgenres is undergraduate work...kid stuff...  the real stuff... the PhD work is in the field of prog rock categorization. 


Edited by micky - 07 Apr 2010 at 5:43pm

I've been fine just calling music...music! Sometimes I'll say, "thats f**king kick-ass, thats what it is" or "heavy pseudo intellectual bullsh*t obvious technical wakery". It gets the point across. And I don't have to explain anything. It's like some people can just slap around terms and sound cool for knowing and applying them. IMO genre is just a disease, no music needs classification if you don't want it to. Word of mouth or descriptors is just better, but it's all subjective anyway. Trying to look objective by tagging something with a genre is an antithesis in and of itself.

Person 1 - "DUDE. Did you hear that band 'Philosophical Nothingness'? It's liek....New Wave Tech-Death Progcore, man!"
Person 2 - "Dude, stfu with yr generz."

micky wrote: Time Signature wrote: Raff wrote: I basically agree that some people (or make it many) are obsessed with categorization, and often end up not seeing the forest for the trees. However, let's remember that categorization is necessary as a reference when the amount of material available is quite vast. No one would ever conceive of a library without any form of categorization - finding books would become impossible.  Not just that - cognitive scientists have shown that categorization is a very basic human cognitive process. I wonder what they could learm from the study of metal subgenres ;-) they'd find that the study of metal subgenres is undergraduate work...kid stuff...  the real stuff... the PhD work is in the field of prog rock categorization.

Alt metal seems like a fairly flimsy descriptor. I see genres as primarily a means of distinguishing artists and categorising similar artists for the sake of exploring and understanding music but 'alt metal' - does it really correspond to anything concrete? I mean I know all genres are abstract concepts with subjective definitions but this one just seems a lot less obvious than the instantly recognisable thrash or power metal genres for example.

Slight tangent: I would really like a stoner metal subgenre at some point in the future.

Raff wrote: Beekeeper wrote: Alt metal seems like a fairly flimsy descriptor. I see genres as primarily a means of distinguishing artists and categorising similar artists for the sake of exploring and understanding music but 'alt metal' - does it really correspond to anything concrete? I mean I know all genres are abstract concepts with subjective definitions but this one just seems a lot less obvious than the instantly recognisable thrash or power metal genres for example. Slight tangent: I would really like a stoner metal subgenre at some point in the future. Alternative metal is a definition used by other sites too. As you may have noticed, most of the genre definitions are shared by most metal sites (just like the majority of those at PA are). This does not mean we cannot improve upon those definitions, but we need viable suggestions. Personally, being familiar with a good deal of the bands included in that particular subgenre, I think 'alt metal' is a very fitting description, therefore don't feel the need to change it. This does not mean I'm right, as you pointed out... However, I am all too aware that finding the perfect definition (unless it is an old, already established one, like 'thrash' or 'power' metal) is far from easy, and that an imperfect definition is better than none.

Yeah very true, better to have it than to not have it.

Don't get me started on PA genres though, Heavy/Crossover/Eclectic prog etc.

aapatsos wrote: I realised that Sepultura are under Alt metal - blasphemy? Honestly, I see them in the thrash metal category - they were just groovier than similar bands of the genre...

Yeah they were definitely thrash if not death pre-chaos AD.

aapatsos wrote: I realised that Sepultura are under Alt metal - blasphemy? Honestly, I see them in the thrash metal category - they were just groovier than similar bands of the genre...