Modern or Vanilla?

There is nothing progressive about the Dream Theater school of prog metal any more.

Edited by Triceratopsoil - 12 Feb 2013 at 5:53pm

Today progressive is a style of music, not necessarily applied to artists who invent the wheel.

When we're talking about progressive metal or rock, we're not really talking about rock or metal music that 'progresses' the genre forward anymore. It's a style, just like doom metal, death metal, black metal, folk rock, etc... its name implies something that isn't necessarily true. Of course, it's an added bonus if a prog metal band is pushing the genre forward, but that's not a requirement for being labeled as 'prog metal'.

With that in mind, it really boils down to what band we're talking about for my preferences. My favorite prog metal act is Pain of Salvation, but I'm not really sure if they would be 'traditional' or 'modern' - kind of a bridge between the two IMO. I'll say that I like both equally.


Edited by J-Man - 12 Feb 2013 at 8:38pm

bartosso wrote: So, the answer to the second question is yes - progressive metal has lost its original meaning. It's quite misleading though, we still call some genuinely progressive bands this way even though they doesn't sound anything like classic prog metal bands.  And yeah, I know what you mean Jonas, one can't like a whole genre, usually we just like some bands that tend to be classified as given kind of metal. I think what we can like or dislike about a sub-genre as a whole are its key features. I, for example, don't like classic prog metal because it tends to be focused on virtuosity at the expense of atmosphere(other than the cheesy one created with keys), spontaneity and creativity. There are some commendable exceptions(Distorted Harmony, Riverside) but I still think it's one of the most consistent and repetitive sub-genres of metal music. My question is why?

Hmmm

The world would be a sad place if we all felt the same, I guess.

For the answer to your first para, head off to PA where there have been numerous threads over the years about what is prog and what isn't and what is prog now and what wasn't etc etc.

The answer will be a continuing debate without a definitive answer.

For the record I fucking hate the term "Vanilla". To me it is a derogatory term.

I wonder what the "post" brigade would say if I continually quoted the likes of Isis, Pelican and Neurosis as "Vanilla" bands? It would rub people up the wrong way, the same as people who quote it with reference to traditional prog metal bands.

So we now have the Sabs as vanilla metal, Maiden as vanilla power or Carcass as vanilla death bands. Get my point?

It is interesting to see a different point of view regarding what you hear with classic PM.  To me your points would relate to the sub genre I quoted above

Thankfully, for Trad PM there are a vast number of bands and fans that agree with me.

De gustibus non est disputandum

bartosso wrote: ^ Don't get me wrong Steve, I don't mean to criticize your taste (or anyone else's for that matter) - I respect it and consider you to be an expert in the field - I just want a constructive discussion about the genre's name as an extremely self-contradictory term. I consider tags to be a tool that helps us classify music and browse through similar artists we may like. This tag doesn't work like that by any means. It just indicates that a given band is progressive... or it's similar to Dream Theater without being progressive at all.  Here's what I think. The very name - "progressive" - is very unfortunate and it's one of main reasons behind many prog metal fans feeling superior to fans of other genres. I think the problem is of axiological nature - "progressive" is a positive word by nature while all other genres' names are neutral.  So, in other words, something that's progressive just can't be bad because progress is a value in itself. We all know it's not true though and that's why "progressive" sucks as a name for a genre of music.

I hear and understand what you say Bartosz.

Maybe a good way to start the debate would be to come up with an alternative first. How would you differentiate between a "progressive" band and one that isn't?

I am of the same mindset as Steve on this one.  Essentially, traditional prog metal is a style of music that I like to listen to.  Sure maybe it isn't all that original from band to band as they all play in that "Dream Theater style", but when it is a style that one enjoys I really don't see it as a problem.  To be honest, is it really that much different than the bands that are considered "progressive" that essential just play in that "Opeth style". 

rushfan4 wrote: I am of the same mindset as Steve on this one.  Essentially, traditional prog metal is a style of music that I like to listen to.  Sure maybe it isn't all that original from band to band as they all play in that "Dream Theater style", but when it is a style that one enjoys I really don't see it as a problem.  To be honest, is it really that much different than the bands that are considered "progressive" that essential just play in that "Opeth style".